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  1. #1

    Taking suggestions for a good direction

    Hello everyone and thanks for taking the time to read this post!!

    I just got hired at a company as an HVAC/R designer. Before that I worked as an HVAC/R sales engineer for about 2 years for a contractor before I had to leave for medical reasons. So I have been out of the HVAC field for 2.3-3 years before I landed the current designer position. I knew nothing about HVAC before my sales engineer job and had to be trained how the company works as well as the HVAC end of things, so I would say my over all HVAC experience is about 1.5 years.

    The company that hired me now knows I have very good CAD skills in both AutoCAD and Revit, and the resume I provided indicates the amount of experience in HVAC.

    I've been given a project that involves a complete renovation of a building. This is something very new to me, due to the size and nature of the project.

    This is where I seek direction:

    Here is a brief and general scope:

    There are two buildings involved, building A and B. Each building is roughly 45,000 gross square feet. Both buildings were built in the early 60's are very similar regarding design architecturally, structurally, and mechanically (only how the pipes are laid out for zoning). Each building has 2 wings and 3 floors. Both buildings are heated by a hydronic system in building A. The project consists of renovating building A. Both buildings are used as office spaces, and none of which have AC.

    Going back to the what is there. There are 2, grossly over sized, boilers in building A that is providing heat for both buildings. Each building has 2 zones. Each zone only services one wing. The riser diagram for the heating is straight forward. Supply goes up while each floor is branched off to service the fin tubes and goes into the return. So while one side is receiving 180 F, I'm assuming the other is only getting 140F - 120F.
    Building A is getting upgrading but not B. A will be getting new windows and doors, re-insulation of the walls, and a new roof, while B will be left the way it is.

    I need to come up with a new heating and cooling design but I still need a lot to review and I have lots of questions.

    For heating, it was suggesting that I install 3 new boilers. Where each boiler (2 at a time) will have to run at 40% capacity and if need to, run at 50% during the very below 0 days. One boiler will be off line and serviced while the other two will be running.

    As for cooling. I'm given 2 options.

    Option 1 will be using split systems that will service the entire building A, while I need to come up with a hydronic system that will service building B, and A that will use radiant heating panels (in the ceiling).

    Option 2 will be involving chillers. The hydronic heating system will include 3 boilers to service A and B in addition to using chillers to service building A. The system in A will be using valances for both heating and cooling.

    I was given 2 books to use as for a refresher. ASHRAE 2011 HVAC Applications and the 2012 HVAC System and Equipment. I also have the 2001 fundamentals.

    I'm looking for advice when using these books, how to size up 3 boilers if each needs to run at 40% capacity while each building will have different heating loads, what type of chillers used in the option 2 applications and if glycol and or any other type of cooling with water will be involved. The best way to zone this out, and info on valances which is new to me.

    I appreciate any input that can help me get in the right direction.

    Thanks!!!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Mount Airy, MD
    Posts
    7,281
    Thread relocated to AOP

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Anderson, South Carolina, United States
    Posts
    7,049
    Out of my league, sorry. Vrv boxes amd high pressure duct to each with hw chilled water coils or Mitsubishi citi multi vrf units????

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Raleigh N.C.
    Posts
    278
    1.5 years as a designer and engineer? Lord help me ! I have spent 38 years trying to make messes designed by engineers with more experience work. Please, I hope those buildings are not in my area. and we don't meet in person. Buddy up with somebody with experience for a while before attacking the ogre.
    Damn phosgene

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by bustedknuckles View Post
    1.5 years as a designer and engineer? Lord help me ! I have spent 38 years trying to make messes designed by engineers with more experience work. Please, I hope those buildings are not in my area. and we don't meet in person. Buddy up with somebody with experience for a while before attacking the ogre.

    Thanks for the reply buddy!! Nice to know that this site offers sarcasm instead of good advice. I'll know where not to post my questions next time.

    Thanks for the confidence bustedknuckles!!!

  6. #6
    "Please, I hope those buildings are not in my area. and we don't meet in person."

    I hope we do meet in person.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Coastal Maine
    Posts
    827
    I realize that you took BustedKnuckles advice as sarcasm, but instead take it as constructive criticism. Some of us have been at this for a very long time. A really, really long time.

    I had a meeting on Friday with a design team where they totally messed everything up. Completely. The lead Mechanical Engineer on the job has been at this for over 10 years. Now we are trying to make lemonade out of Chicken S**t. I would dare to say that while you have the enthusiasm, you lack a lot of the experience that it takes to sort out a mess like the one that you describe. Find a knowledgeable older mechanical engineer to sub some of this out to and learn as much as you can from him/her.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    198
    This is the Ask Our Pro's forum, and only Pro members that have been vetted by the AOPC may post advise, commentary, or ask questions of the OP here.

    You can find the rules for posting and qualifications here.

    Further infractions may result in loss of posting privileges.
    Last edited by beenthere; 02-09-2013 at 05:58 PM. Reason: Non Pro * Member

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,112
    DDC_Dan, this is the Ask Our Pro's forum, and only Pro members that have been vetted by the AOPC may post advise, commentary or ask questions of the OP here.

    You can find the rules for posting and qualifications here.

    Your post has been deleted.
    Further infractions may result in loss of posting privileges.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    198
    This is the Ask Our Pro's forum, and only Pro members that have been vetted by the AOPC may post advise, commentary, or ask questions of the OP here.

    You can find the rules for posting and qualifications here.

    Further infractions may result in loss of posting privileges.
    Last edited by beenthere; 02-09-2013 at 06:25 PM. Reason: Non Pro * Member, no warning, apologized

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Raleigh N.C.
    Posts
    278
    Thank You meplumber, my reply was meant constructivly if somewhat crankily (us old geezers get like that). rjk42 sorry for ruffling your feathers.
    Damn phosgene

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Northern Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,013
    I'm curious, are you preparing budgeting or bidding plans?
    Use the biggest hammer you like, pounding a square peg into a round hole does not equal a proper fit.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,663
    Now this is gonna be good.
    Let me see I don't know how to engineer a building so I'm going to look to the internet to get me through a jam then get mad when people don't craw on their knees to help me. Don't forget I had a sales job that I had to quit for health reasons, I got sick of sitting at my desk and not selling nothing.
    My name is TooCoolforschool and I am a chronic over charger.

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