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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Columbia, MD
    Posts
    4,216
    ANSI standards allows 400ppm CO air free in the exhaust. Anything over that gets red tagged and shut off.

    I shoot for under 100ppm CO and stable. This is what i've been trained to do.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    somewhere between heaven and hell
    Posts
    957
    Gravity where can I find this to prove my point.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Mn the state where absolutey nothing is allowed
    Posts
    1,357
    Quote Originally Posted by mrlighturfire View Post
    Yes I did 0 PPM in living space.
    and you were the last service professonal HVAC contractor onsite

    let me ask you a question? whats the co in the living space now? at this minute??

    its still a red tag, screw the local rep
    my boss thinks its possible to repeal the laws of physics

  4. #17
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    somewhere between heaven and hell
    Posts
    957
    Monday I am telling the other tech and my boss I don't care what the rep said for now on I will go by what my meter tells me and I will shut unit down and explain to homeowner the danger. I think our rep is full of it.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    somewhere between heaven and hell
    Posts
    957
    I can't find my documents to back my validations right now.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Champaign Illinois
    Posts
    97
    Looks like an LP system. Lol. . I herd ( I don't know how true it is) that briant and carrier 90's need to be run for a minimum of 20 min. To allow the oils from manufacture to work there way out of the secondary. If this is not done the secondary will plug. Like I said I don't know how true this is but it's what I herd.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Western, KY
    Posts
    3,226
    This is one of the most frustrating things in HVAC. There needs to be something written into the mechanical code that gives HVAC companies the power to not only shut down a unit but details the guidelines on how to shut down a unit so everyone is on the same page.

    I shut down a rental unit in CO one time and the land lord threatened to sue our owner, he had me go back and turn it on, from then on we had paperwork that "released liability" when someone didn't want it shut off.

    In KY my current employer doesn't even have a policy or paperwork or anything, our owner flip flops back and forth on what he wants us to do, there are currently 4 units running with confirmed breaches of the HX(haven't had flame roll out yet).

    I guess the problem is that unscrupulous companies could use it as a method of forcing someone to buy a new unit, which is why the local gas utility should have individuals trained through NCI and other organizations to provide a second opinion and confirm the problem in a timely manner.

    Any chance some national standards will be set sometime soon?

  8. #21
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    79
    Quote Originally Posted by mason View Post
    which is why the local gas utility should have individuals trained through NCI and other organizations to provide a second opinion and confirm the problem in a timely manner.
    I've been on a few calls where our utility company had red-tagged and shut-down a furnace due to CO. Apparently their guys carry analyzers on the trucks, because they always have the CO ppm and excess air numbers on the tags.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    somewhere between heaven and hell
    Posts
    957
    Minnesota centerpoint energy gas does all the time. They actually repair furnaces and ac.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Western, KY
    Posts
    3,226
    Quote Originally Posted by Andr00 View Post
    I've been on a few calls where our utility company had red-tagged and shut-down a furnace due to CO. Apparently their guys carry analyzers on the trucks, because they always have the CO ppm and excess air numbers on the tags.
    I think this is a good thing, but it's still just one local area, a nationally recognized system would benefit everyone and clear up so much confusion.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Cincinnati ohio
    Posts
    252
    Quote Originally Posted by mason View Post
    This is one of the most frustrating things in HVAC. There needs to be something written into the mechanical code that gives HVAC companies the power to not only shut down a unit but details the guidelines on how to shut down a unit so everyone is on the same page.

    I shut down a rental unit in CO one time and the land lord threatened to sue our owner, he had me go back and turn it on, from then on we had paperwork that "released liability" when someone didn't want it shut off.

    In KY my current employer doesn't even have a policy or paperwork or anything, our owner flip flops back and forth on what he wants us to do, there are currently 4 units running with confirmed breaches of the HX(haven't had flame roll out yet).

    I guess the problem is that unscrupulous companies could use it as a method of forcing someone to buy a new unit, which is why the local gas utility should have individuals trained through NCI and other organizations to provide a second opinion and confirm the problem in a timely manner.

    Any chance some national standards will be set sometime soon?
    The problem is when you disable it to a point that the customer cant turn it back on. If you show them how you do it and not take the option of turning it back on away from them usually they are ok with it. I always show them how I do it and tell them it is unsafe to operate and have them sign the paper saying they understand that it is unsafe and what they do when I leave is on them.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Western, KY
    Posts
    3,226
    Quote Originally Posted by 2141 View Post
    The problem is when you disable it to a point that the customer cant turn it back on. If you show them how you do it and not take the option of turning it back on away from them usually they are ok with it. I always show them how I do it and tell them it is unsafe to operate and have them sign the paper saying they understand that it is unsafe and what they do when I leave is on them.
    That's the "standard" a lot of companies are using but let's say you shut off the gas cock and turn off the switch. Another occupant who wasn't present comes in and there is no heat so they check it out, even a non professional can turn a gas cock and flip a switch, maybe it's shut down from a rusted flue and HX, now dangerous levels of CO enter the space.

    In court the judge would put the liability on us as the "expert" to make sure a non pro couldn't "accidentally" or without enough knowledge to make "informed consent" kill themselves.

    In such a court case they would look at the bottom line, was the energy source removed in a way that clearly demonstrated the need for a professional to get the unit operational again. This would require removal of the breaker in the panel and/or capping of the gas line to the unit, with a posting on the unit in eye catching colors that clearly spelled out the unit was a danger to occupants/property and required professional work going forward.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Cincinnati ohio
    Posts
    252
    Quote Originally Posted by mason View Post
    That's the "standard" a lot of companies are using but let's say you shut off the gas cock and turn off the switch. Another occupant who wasn't present comes in and there is no heat so they check it out, even a non professional can turn a gas cock and flip a switch, maybe it's shut down from a rusted flue and HX, now dangerous levels of CO enter the space.

    In court the judge would put the liability on us as the "expert" to make sure a non pro couldn't "accidentally" or without enough knowledge to make "informed consent" kill themselves.

    In such a court case they would look at the bottom line, was the energy source removed in a way that clearly demonstrated the need for a professional to get the unit operational again. This would require removal of the breaker in the panel and/or capping of the gas line to the unit, with a posting on the unit in eye catching colors that clearly spelled out the unit was a danger to occupants/property and required professional work going forward.
    I see what you are saying. I mainly deal with single family homes and try to have both adults present in these situations. I believe in Ohio where I work it is actually illegal to permanately disable a furnace in these situations. We use the red tag and notice of unsafe gas appliance form and and turn off the gas cock and switch on furnace or breaker and have never gotten in trouble. Before I changed my approach I used to get threatened about being sued.

    I have always been nervous or worried about who would actually be liable in a case that someone dies the tech or the company if the tech was following company policy. Hopefully none of us will ever have to find out.

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