ReplyDid you use a CO meter in the living space to make sure CO wasn't entering the living space.
Professional Member
Question. I ws on a Bryant 350MAV 90% furnace yesterday and the flames looked funny so I took a reading in the exhaust and it was 1392 PPM. Secondary heat exchanger is bad. Roll out switch was not tripped but the burner box was extremely hot. I had my own business in Minnesota and by code you are suppose to red tag furnace. So I called Bryant here in Indiana nd they told me as long a it is not entering into living area I should leave it on for them to have heat. Of course I was shocked about this and felt uncomortable but the other tech said to leave it on for them also. So I left it on even though I was uncomfortable with this. The other tech said since Bryant had a enclosed burner compartment and the inake was vented outside it was ok to leave furnace running.
Professional Member*
Did you use a CO meter in the living space to make sure CO wasn't entering the living space.
Professional Member
Yes I did 0 PPM in living space.
Global Moderator
Is Bryant willing to supply you with a letter stating that 1394 ppm of CO is OK, and the unit is safe to operate? I doubt it.Originally Posted by mrlighturfire
I would also have the home owner put in writing the fact that you want to red tag the unit until it is fixed, but they are authorizing you to leave it operating knowing the dangers.
Even then, who knows what the lawyers would do, if anything happens.
Instead of learning the tricks of the trade, learn the trade.
Professional Member*
X2
Professional Member
I told the homeowner this and how I felt about this and of course homeowner had no CO detectors in the house. Bryant here in Indiana I am kinda fed up with them. I had a secondary plugged up couple weeks ago and they won't honor the warranty on a plugged secondary unless it is rusted out. They said you should have abulletin about this at your shop which we dobut haven't had time to read this yet. But I will ths weekend.
Professional Member
For now on this is what I will do with the homeowner. And document it at the same time. This is ust uncomfortable.
Professional Member
I am going to find mydocuments from NCI that acks m statement up.
Professional Member
Having trouble wih my keyboard guess I should red tag my keyboard while I am at it.
God Speed, Jim. We'll miss you - 2-26-23
If your state doesn't have laws/regs requiring you to disable the furnace. Then turn the switch off. note it on your invoice that you did so. leave a copy of your readings with the invoice. Verbally explain why its unsafe to the customer, and tell them you turned/left the service switch in the off position. note on your invoice that you explained the dangers to the customer, and that you informed them that the power was turned off. get their signature. If they turn it back on later. You have your proof you explained the dangers, and left the furnace turned off.
Professional Member
I agree. A secondary h/x with the polypropolene failure is the same as a hole or crack in a primary. The unit should be redtagged and the gas and electric turned off. it is our company policy anyway. ALWAYS COVER YOUR ASS!
Professional Member*
According to ANSI standards, you must shut down or disable any vented appliance that produces over 400 ppm of CO.
Shut it off, hang a red tag, and notate your readings on the ticket and have owner sign ticket. If the owner turns it back on, that's not your problem.
Sounds like your Bryant people need some info on industry standards as they relate to CO.
Professional Member
pic taken from 8 yr old bryant 340AAV042080
Please, Please Please......keep the Factory Smoke in the Wires!!!!!
Is it Rum'Oclock yet???
Professional Member*
ANSI standards allows 400ppm CO air free in the exhaust. Anything over that gets red tagged and shut off.
I shoot for under 100ppm CO and stable. This is what i've been trained to do.
Professional Member
Gravity where can I find this to prove my point.
Professional Member
and you were the last service professonal HVAC contractor onsite
let me ask you a question? whats the co in the living space now? at this minute??
its still a red tag, screw the local rep
my boss thinks its possible to repeal the laws of physics
Professional Member
Monday I am telling the other tech and my boss I don't care what the rep said for now on I will go by what my meter tells me and I will shut unit down and explain to homeowner the danger. I think our rep is full of it.
Professional Member
I can't find my documents to back my validations right now.
Professional Member
Looks like an LP system. Lol.. I herd ( I don't know how true it is) that briant and carrier 90's need to be run for a minimum of 20 min. To allow the oils from manufacture to work there way out of the secondary. If this is not done the secondary will plug. Like I said I don't know how true this is but it's what I herd.
Professional Member
This is one of the most frustrating things in HVAC. There needs to be something written into the mechanical code that gives HVAC companies the power to not only shut down a unit but details the guidelines on how to shut down a unit so everyone is on the same page.
I shut down a rental unit in CO one time and the land lord threatened to sue our owner, he had me go back and turn it on, from then on we had paperwork that "released liability" when someone didn't want it shut off.
In KY my current employer doesn't even have a policy or paperwork or anything, our owner flip flops back and forth on what he wants us to do, there are currently 4 units running with confirmed breaches of the HX(haven't had flame roll out yet).
I guess the problem is that unscrupulous companies could use it as a method of forcing someone to buy a new unit, which is why the local gas utility should have individuals trained through NCI and other organizations to provide a second opinion and confirm the problem in a timely manner.
Any chance some national standards will be set sometime soon?
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