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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    Eugene, Oregon
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    1,018

    Debt Ceiling Showdown

    http://www.politico.com/story/2013/0...own-86116.html

    I predict that the Republicans will cause a crash of the economy in the near future. It will be the demise of the Republican Party.
    "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten". --Benjamin Franklin
    "Don't argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience". --Mark Twain
    http://www.campbellmechanical.com

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    33
    I agree that a crash in the economy is probably coming, but are we really going to blame the Republican party? Neither party is innocent but our Democrat President and Democrat controlled Senate failed to pass a budget from 2009 to 2012 and have done nothing to cut down on our spending despite our debt piling up. The crash is bound to come as more and more people take advantage of programs put in place by the government like unemployment and welfare. If this were a household that would mean that we are living off of credit cards because we spend more than we earn, and rather than curbing our spending and putting a budget in place to cut the balance down we cut down our work hours and just hope that we make more in the future or the bill collectors dont catch up to us.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Chicagoland Area
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    4,830
    You have to hurt before you can heal
    Officially, Down for the count

    YOU HAVE TO GET OFF YOUR ASS TO GET ON YOUR FEET

    I know enough to know, I don't know enough
    Liberalism-Ideas so good they mandate them

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon
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    1,018
    I think that it will be more politically damaging to the Republicans than the Democrats. Your right though, there is a fundamental problem with our economy. Most of the federal spending is for military, SS, Medicare. The biggest industries making money from these program are the military industrial complex and the health care industries. The only way to control these cost is to reduce the size of our military and reform the health care system. Without these basic changes anything else will just be kicking the can down the road.
    "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten". --Benjamin Franklin
    "Don't argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience". --Mark Twain
    http://www.campbellmechanical.com

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon
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    1,018
    Quote Originally Posted by 2sac View Post
    You have to hurt before you can heal
    It's going to be a lot of hurt. We'll all be without jobs.
    "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten". --Benjamin Franklin
    "Don't argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience". --Mark Twain
    http://www.campbellmechanical.com

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    21,713
    Back in the 1990's... there were a number of 'showdowns' over spending and taxation... the govt was shut down many times. We survived. There are lessons to be learned from history... if one is willing to study.

    The crash is coming... almost like a perfect storm... regardless what is done or not done. IMO trying to figure out who to blame is really irrelevant... what we need to do is figure out how to salvage the US economy and get things working again.

    Now lets look at this: Has there ever, in history, been a household, company, corporation, country, etc... which can live in deficit spending endlessly? We all know the answer.
    So how to resolve this: The Fed govt takes in roughly $3T a year.... and spends roughly $4T... Either we take in another $T... or we reduce spending by a $T... or a mix.
    Just a side note: If we taxed at a rate of 100% ALL the income of every person who earned more than the old $200K for singles and $250K for marrieds... we would raise less than 1/2 of what would be necessary to close that gap between revenues and spending. I can tell you for a fact... the folks I know who make that kind of $$$ would leave the USA. Then who will we tax? Back to the problem:
    We know that taxing folks to death KILLS economic growth. We also know that printing $$$ causes price inflation... with kills economic growth. We also know that cutting spending is, for a polecat, worse than a root canal. And we know entitlement spending is the largest one source of govt spending... yet it is the easiest way to buy votes--thus supporting the careers of polecats.

    So what to do?

    IMO the only solution is to CHANGE the polecats. I noted that at the election a few mos ago... Public approval of Congress was in the teens... like 15% of the country approved of what Congress was doing. Yet something like 90% of the incumbents running for election were re-elected.

    If we want to get our country straightened out... that kind of apathy has to change. Folks need to vote based on what is good for a FREE country... NOT what lines their wallets. The latter is proven to DESTROY countries.
    I wonder how much pain of remaining the same is necessary... to cause REAL change?
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    S.E. Pa
    Posts
    6,290
    Rarified air, I'd like to know how it is you think the Republicans on their own will crash the economy? Rather than banter about how the Repubs. will come out of our current fiscal mess, I'd like you to share with us your take on what our problems are, who's to blame and what solutions do you see to save the country and rebuild our economy. You seem hung up on the military as if we can just turn off the lights and close it down. Sure, there are some economies to made there but what about all the other parts of our spending say if we leave SS and Medicare alone? Discretionary spending in 2011 was $646 billion or 18%. Net interest was $227 billion or 6%. Any room in there to perhaps reduce spending sufficiently to avoid future fiscal cliffs and actually begin to pay off debts and reduce our debt ceiling?
    TIA,

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon
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    1,018
    Quote Originally Posted by hearthman View Post
    Rarified air, I'd like to know how it is you think the Republicans on their own will crash the economy? Rather than banter about how the Repubs. will come out of our current fiscal mess, I'd like you to share with us your take on what our problems are, who's to blame and what solutions do you see to save the country and rebuild our economy. You seem hung up on the military as if we can just turn off the lights and close it down. Sure, there are some economies to made there but what about all the other parts of our spending say if we leave SS and Medicare alone? Discretionary spending in 2011 was $646 billion or 18%. Net interest was $227 billion or 6%. Any room in there to perhaps reduce spending sufficiently to avoid future fiscal cliffs and actually begin to pay off debts and reduce our debt ceiling?
    TIA,
    My nephew is a Lt. in the navy and Chief Weapons Officer on a brand new $1.3 billion dollar ship. He said a flat panel television went out and it cost $60,000 to replace it. Military contractors and workers are robbing the country blind. The military has become a jobs program for republican cronies. Since the military cost $500 billion per year not counting special funding for current wars I think it's a good place to start making cuts.
    Health insurance premiums are going up 18% this year. Those premiums are going to come out of workers pockets. The employers are not going to absorb the cost. This is partially due to Obamacare but mostly because of the private insurance system. Almost all other developed countries have single payer health care and spend about half per capita than we do. Health insurance cost are a drain on the economy and reduces disposable incomes. The rising cost of health care are why Medicare are so high. With a single payer rationed healthcare system those cost can be controlled and reduce the amount the Federal Gov is spending.
    Spending cuts and tax increases will be required also. But both these measures will impact the economy because like you said, the rich will take their ball and go home and the program spending cuts will reduce moneys entering the economy.
    Here something to consider, if all debt in the world were paid off, there would be no money left in circulation. Because money is debt. That's the nature of our monetary system.
    When this economy collapses, and it will, we will need to pull together to get this country back on track. But all of this could be avoided by developing a long term solution instead of holding the economy hostage like the republicans are doing right now.
    "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten". --Benjamin Franklin
    "Don't argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience". --Mark Twain
    http://www.campbellmechanical.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon
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    1,018
    Quote Originally Posted by hearthman View Post
    Rarified air,
    Rarefied air, really? I'll take that as a compliment.
    "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten". --Benjamin Franklin
    "Don't argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience". --Mark Twain
    http://www.campbellmechanical.com

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    21,713
    Hmmm... it appears we have another 'drive by liberal poster'... Seems they are growing out of the woodwork.

    Oh well...

    Rarified air... IMO your brain is starved of O2... this will be the last I read you... you are making NO sense whatsoever... so you go on ignore.

    Oh, and I knew I would not be out the $1... the libs NEVER are co owners... they are not smart enough to run a co.

    Bye.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    S.E. Pa
    Posts
    6,290
    We were talking about the economy and the federal budget--not personal standard of living so please don't confuse the two. However, since you brought up the rising cost of healthcare, what do you think is driving that through the roof? Litigation because Congress refuses to address Tort Law Reform? Let's see: Congress is full of lawyers and lawyers make their fortunes primarily off tort law litigation. What's there motive to reform tort law? None. What else drives the cost of healthcare? Government at all levels, agencies, red tape, bureaucracy, and BS. We had the best health care in the world but now as you pointed out with rationing, some get it and some don't. The young with projected productive futures will get it and those who are projected to cost a lot will suffer. Very similar to the lines at the concentration camps separating the Jews. If you think Single Payer will control costs, you really have been breathing in that rarified air.

    If you cut spending enough and control the rate of growth, you shouldn't need to raise taxes. When does the taxation end? When the country has been officially socialized and the State gives you what they dictate? That's slavery.

    Your definition of "debt" is a little skewed. If you're talking about the Federal Reserve backing its fiat currency with gold, then currency would once again be the same as gold only more convenient and manageable. However, if you have cash stockpiled that is backed by gold so it does hold intrinsic value then you can have debt paid off and still have money in circulation. Money isn't debt-it is value. If you pay off the loans the federal government owes, that would save about $277 billion/ yr based on 2011 numbers (but it is rising all the time).

    The hostage taker is named Barack Hussein Obama. Didn't you hear his speech where he flat out said he would not negotiate? He has never negotiated on anything. He is a tyrant and a dictator. He is hell bent on running us into a depression because that is where values get re-assigned. Debts can be washed away. He doesn't care about all his big spending because he isn't planning on repaying one penny. Crash the world's economy, revalue everything, start from scratch but on his terms. When you hold the power, you dictate who gets what. In the 1930s, it was the banks who were demonized because they absorbed much of the wealth in this country through foreclosure. However, if the government owns the banks and the wealth of the country through more "Stimuli" they can simply nationalize the assets and hold the country hostage. Then they can reset values, declare old loans satisfied and start their New World Order. The Republicans are somewhat complicit because they have become "Progressive Lite" and are not conservative by a long shot. Still, they have tried to rein in Obama and his spendaholics but have had their butts handed to them by Obama at every turn.

    You get hypoxic from breathing rarified air, which leads to mental confusing and eventually coma. I guess that's flattering to you.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon
    Posts
    1,018
    Quote Originally Posted by hearthman View Post
    We were talking about the economy and the federal budget--not personal standard of living so please don't confuse the two. However, since you brought up the rising cost of healthcare, what do you think is driving that through the roof? Litigation because Congress refuses to address Tort Law Reform? Let's see: Congress is full of lawyers and lawyers make their fortunes primarily off tort law litigation. What's there motive to reform tort law? None. What else drives the cost of healthcare? Government at all levels, agencies, red tape, bureaucracy, and BS. We had the best health care in the world but now as you pointed out with rationing, some get it and some don't. The young with projected productive futures will get it and those who are projected to cost a lot will suffer. Very similar to the lines at the concentration camps separating the Jews. If you think Single Payer will control costs, you really have been breathing in that rarified air.

    If you cut spending enough and control the rate of growth, you shouldn't need to raise taxes. When does the taxation end? When the country has been officially socialized and the State gives you what they dictate? That's slavery.

    Your definition of "debt" is a little skewed. If you're talking about the Federal Reserve backing its fiat currency with gold, then currency would once again be the same as gold only more convenient and manageable. However, if you have cash stockpiled that is backed by gold so it does hold intrinsic value then you can have debt paid off and still have money in circulation. Money isn't debt-it is value. If you pay off the loans the federal government owes, that would save about $277 billion/ yr based on 2011 numbers (but it is rising all the time).

    The hostage taker is named Barack Hussein Obama. Didn't you hear his speech where he flat out said he would not negotiate? He has never negotiated on anything. He is a tyrant and a dictator. He is hell bent on running us into a depression because that is where values get re-assigned. Debts can be washed away. He doesn't care about all his big spending because he isn't planning on repaying one penny. Crash the world's economy, revalue everything, start from scratch but on his terms. When you hold the power, you dictate who gets what. In the 1930s, it was the banks who were demonized because they absorbed much of the wealth in this country through foreclosure. However, if the government owns the banks and the wealth of the country through more "Stimuli" they can simply nationalize the assets and hold the country hostage. Then they can reset values, declare old loans satisfied and start their New World Order. The Republicans are somewhat complicit because they have become "Progressive Lite" and are not conservative by a long shot. Still, they have tried to rein in Obama and his spendaholics but have had their butts handed to them by Obama at every turn.

    You get hypoxic from breathing rarified air, which leads to mental confusing and eventually coma. I guess that's flattering to you.
    There is no gold standard.
    And the view from the top is allows me to see the big picture.
    "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten". --Benjamin Franklin
    "Don't argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience". --Mark Twain
    http://www.campbellmechanical.com

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    21,713
    Hey Hearth...

    I have a buck that says our O2 starved drive by liberal could care less... He thinks if he gets his share... the rest of us are just his pawns. What he does not realize is the power mongers take EVERYONE down when they want power.

    I wonder how long until airhead figures out he is just a tool of Das Furer... and is expendable.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

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