Debt Ceiling Showdown

[air1]

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/0...own-86116.html

I predict that the Republicans will cause a crash of the economy in the near future. It will be the demise of the Republican Party.

[TXTech1]

I agree that a crash in the economy is probably coming, but are we really going to blame the Republican party? Neither party is innocent but our Democrat President and Democrat controlled Senate failed to pass a budget from 2009 to 2012 and have done nothing to cut down on our spending despite our debt piling up. The crash is bound to come as more and more people take advantage of programs put in place by the government like unemployment and welfare. If this were a household that would mean that we are living off of credit cards because we spend more than we earn, and rather than curbing our spending and putting a budget in place to cut the balance down we cut down our work hours and just hope that we make more in the future or the bill collectors dont catch up to us.

[2sac]

You have to hurt before you can heal

[air1]

You have to hurt before you can heal

It's going to be a lot of hurt. We'll all be without jobs.

[Super Tech JJ]

Here is a thought about the debt limit or lack there of;

Why would you fight hard to try to do a good job when you can not be fired? They are untouchable! Once they are tenured they have nothing to lose. We pay them about 165K per year, (for the rest of their lives) they are tax free, they get free gold plated medical paid for by you and me, they are allowed to absolutely steal from us in the form of insider trading! And whatever form of free goodies they get by those selling their goods to the US. ie; Lobbyists..

They have no desire to work hard for the people because when we get mad at them and vote them out they go home and still collect their (OUR) money!

How many Billions does that equal per year? I am afraid to look it up.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Here is a thought about the debt limit or lack there of;

Why would you fight hard to try to do a good job when you can not be fired? They are untouchable! Once they are tenured they have nothing to lose. We pay them about 165K per year, (for the rest of their lives) they are tax free, they get free gold plated medical paid for by you and me, they are allowed to absolutely steal from us in the form of insider trading! And whatever form of free goodies they get by those selling their goods to the US. ie; Lobbyists..

They have no desire to work hard for the people because when we get mad at them and vote them out they go home and still collect their (OUR) money!

How many Billions does that equal per year? I am afraid to look it up.

\

And "We the People" have this thing called the US Constitution... which authorizes us to deal with this problem... All we have to do is:
Grow a set...
Study and understand the Constitution... and
Just do it (take our country back).

Wonder how long until (hopefully it will happen) we do.

[printer2]

\

And "We the People" have this thing called the US Constitution... which authorizes us to deal with this problem... All we have to do is:
Grow a set...
Study and understand the Constitution... and
Just do it (take our country back).

Wonder how long until (hopefully it will happen) we do.

Take it back how?

[air1]

\

And "We the People" have this thing called the US Constitution... which authorizes us to deal with this problem... All we have to do is:
Grow a set...
Study and understand the Constitution... and
Just do it (take our country back).

Wonder how long until (hopefully it will happen) we do.

Take it back from who?

[air1]

I think that it will be more politically damaging to the Republicans than the Democrats. Your right though, there is a fundamental problem with our economy. Most of the federal spending is for military, SS, Medicare. The biggest industries making money from these program are the military industrial complex and the health care industries. The only way to control these cost is to reduce the size of our military and reform the health care system. Without these basic changes anything else will just be kicking the can down the road.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Back in the 1990's... there were a number of 'showdowns' over spending and taxation... the govt was shut down many times. We survived. There are lessons to be learned from history... if one is willing to study.

The crash is coming... almost like a perfect storm... regardless what is done or not done. IMO trying to figure out who to blame is really irrelevant... what we need to do is figure out how to salvage the US economy and get things working again.

Now lets look at this: Has there ever, in history, been a household, company, corporation, country, etc... which can live in deficit spending endlessly? We all know the answer.
So how to resolve this: The Fed govt takes in roughly $3T a year.... and spends roughly $4T... Either we take in another $T... or we reduce spending by a $T... or a mix.
Just a side note: If we taxed at a rate of 100% ALL the income of every person who earned more than the old $200K for singles and $250K for marrieds... we would raise less than 1/2 of what would be necessary to close that gap between revenues and spending. I can tell you for a fact... the folks I know who make that kind of $$$ would leave the USA. Then who will we tax? Back to the problem:
We know that taxing folks to death KILLS economic growth. We also know that printing $$$ causes price inflation... with kills economic growth. We also know that cutting spending is, for a polecat, worse than a root canal. And we know entitlement spending is the largest one source of govt spending... yet it is the easiest way to buy votes--thus supporting the careers of polecats.

So what to do?

IMO the only solution is to CHANGE the polecats. I noted that at the election a few mos ago... Public approval of Congress was in the teens... like 15% of the country approved of what Congress was doing. Yet something like 90% of the incumbents running for election were re-elected.

If we want to get our country straightened out... that kind of apathy has to change. Folks need to vote based on what is good for a FREE country... NOT what lines their wallets. The latter is proven to DESTROY countries.
I wonder how much pain of remaining the same is necessary... to cause REAL change?

[behappy]

So what to do?

IMO the only solution is to CHANGE the polecats. I noted that at the election a few mos ago... Public approval of Congress was in the teens... like 15% of the country approved of what Congress was doing. Yet something like 90% of the incumbents running for election were re-elected.

If we want to get our country straightened out... that kind of apathy has to change. Folks need to vote based on what is good for a FREE country... NOT what lines their wallets. The latter is proven to DESTROY countries.
I wonder how much pain of remaining the same is necessary... to cause REAL change?

My congressman caught some serious grief from the national media for voting down the hurricane Sandy relief bill. The national media crucified him because he was from the Katrina area and he should have known how bad they needed the bill.

What they didn't tell you is he voted against the bill because they loaded it up like a Christmas tree with pork from other parts of the country. He wanted the TOTAL money to go ONLY to Sandy relief.
We have seen first hand how the Feds WASTES money when it comes to "relief".

I will be willing to bet anything they will use that against him in, when it comes time for reelection.

[hearthman]

Rarified air, I'd like to know how it is you think the Republicans on their own will crash the economy? Rather than banter about how the Repubs. will come out of our current fiscal mess, I'd like you to share with us your take on what our problems are, who's to blame and what solutions do you see to save the country and rebuild our economy. You seem hung up on the military as if we can just turn off the lights and close it down. Sure, there are some economies to made there but what about all the other parts of our spending say if we leave SS and Medicare alone? Discretionary spending in 2011 was $646 billion or 18%. Net interest was $227 billion or 6%. Any room in there to perhaps reduce spending sufficiently to avoid future fiscal cliffs and actually begin to pay off debts and reduce our debt ceiling?
TIA,

[air1]

Rarified air, I'd like to know how it is you think the Republicans on their own will crash the economy? Rather than banter about how the Repubs. will come out of our current fiscal mess, I'd like you to share with us your take on what our problems are, who's to blame and what solutions do you see to save the country and rebuild our economy. You seem hung up on the military as if we can just turn off the lights and close it down. Sure, there are some economies to made there but what about all the other parts of our spending say if we leave SS and Medicare alone? Discretionary spending in 2011 was $646 billion or 18%. Net interest was $227 billion or 6%. Any room in there to perhaps reduce spending sufficiently to avoid future fiscal cliffs and actually begin to pay off debts and reduce our debt ceiling?
TIA,

My nephew is a Lt. in the navy and Chief Weapons Officer on a brand new $1.3 billion dollar ship. He said a flat panel television went out and it cost $60,000 to replace it. Military contractors and workers are robbing the country blind. The military has become a jobs program for republican cronies. Since the military cost $500 billion per year not counting special funding for current wars I think it's a good place to start making cuts.
Health insurance premiums are going up 18% this year. Those premiums are going to come out of workers pockets. The employers are not going to absorb the cost. This is partially due to Obamacare but mostly because of the private insurance system. Almost all other developed countries have single payer health care and spend about half per capita than we do. Health insurance cost are a drain on the economy and reduces disposable incomes. The rising cost of health care are why Medicare are so high. With a single payer rationed healthcare system those cost can be controlled and reduce the amount the Federal Gov is spending.
Spending cuts and tax increases will be required also. But both these measures will impact the economy because like you said, the rich will take their ball and go home and the program spending cuts will reduce moneys entering the economy.
Here something to consider, if all debt in the world were paid off, there would be no money left in circulation. Because money is debt. That's the nature of our monetary system.
When this economy collapses, and it will, we will need to pull together to get this country back on track. But all of this could be avoided by developing a long term solution instead of holding the economy hostage like the republicans are doing right now.