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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    Southeastern Pa
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    Commercial customers usually are resistant to any increase in cost, since in reality, they are repairing the system that is actually owned by their landlord.

    For residential, I might price in a 5-2-1 for the new install.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  2. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    239
    I was told some manufacturers don't want these in their systems. Why is that? And what is the downside to using them if any?

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesjen829 View Post
    I was told some manufacturers don't want these in their systems. Why is that? And what is the downside to using them if any?
    Would you want people to discover that your system worked better with something you had left out?

  4. #17
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Upper Michigan
    Posts
    3,589
    Anyone have any good material on hard start kits? Up here in the land of the ice and snow they don't seem to common as far as I know.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    33
    Basically your hard start kit gives more starting torque to start faster, the faster start gives you less current moving through the windings which is better for them because they do not get as hot. However with that being said scroll compressors have enough starting torque to where it should never require a hard start kit. If you have a scroll needing a hard start kit the compressor is dying. I do not know for certain as I have heard this argued both ways but I have heard that if you put a hard start on a scroll that doesnt need it can reduce the life of your compressor because it will get too much torque. This would be my concern with putting one on new installs, our company policy is to not put a hard start on unless the compressor cant start without it

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXTech1 View Post
    Basically your hard start kit gives more starting torque to start faster, the faster start gives you less current moving through the windings which is better for them because they do not get as hot. However with that being said scroll compressors have enough starting torque to where it should never require a hard start kit. If you have a scroll needing a hard start kit the compressor is dying. I do not know for certain as I have heard this argued both ways but I have heard that if you put a hard start on a scroll that doesnt need it can reduce the life of your compressor because it will get too much torque. This would be my concern with putting one on new installs, our company policy is to not put a hard start on unless the compressor cant start without it
    While a scroll may not "need" a start kit, there is NO downside in using one.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    6,838
    I'm sure there is a amp difference on start up, using verses not using a start capacitor. I would prefer to use a lesser draw of amps. That being said I only use a hard start when it's needed.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Kennesaw, GA
    Posts
    619
    Quote Originally Posted by TXTech1 View Post
    Basically your hard start kit gives more starting torque to start faster, the faster start gives you less current moving through the windings which is better for them because they do not get as hot. However with that being said scroll compressors have enough starting torque to where it should never require a hard start kit. If you have a scroll needing a hard start kit the compressor is dying. I do not know for certain as I have heard this argued both ways but I have heard that if you put a hard start on a scroll that doesnt need it can reduce the life of your compressor because it will get too much torque. This would be my concern with putting one on new installs, our company policy is to not put a hard start on unless the compressor cant start without it
    2 months back we were working on a unit in class. LOL, damn units compressor wouldn't turn on for crap. It was a pretty old unit. So we started testing the compressor out for being grounded, thermal overload or bad windings. Everything tested fine then one of us thought about putting a hard start kit, loll after looking through a bunch of old parts that were in storage cabinet we finally found a hard start kit and put it on. The unit turned on with the first start. It was a good troubleshooting experiance as we all learned alot that day! lollll

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Birmingham Al
    Posts
    24
    Thanks for all the input regarding hard start caps. I can see there are differing opinions as to when to use them. This thread is my first post on this forum and it has been very beneficial as I try to learn this trade.
    I will definitely be back to pick your brains for more info!!

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    5,935
    Quote Originally Posted by Joehvac25 View Post
    Anyone have any good material on hard start kits? Up here in the land of the ice and snow they don't seem to common as far as I know.
    I'm not sure what you are looking for, but I emailed you some info from Copeland and Bristol on start components on their compressors.
    Instead of learning the tricks of the trade, learn the trade.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Pembroke Pines , Florida
    Posts
    2
    Its good to have a hard start kit on any compressor, It helps the compressor starts quicker preventing house light from dimming and it should prolong the life of the compressor windings. If the run cap gets weak the compressor will still start and run until the run cap gets really bad.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Upper Michigan
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    3,589
    Quote Originally Posted by rundawg View Post
    I'm not sure what you are looking for, but I emailed you some info from Copeland and Bristol on start components on their compressors.
    Thanks

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    19,566
    Consider this:

    if you work on reach-in fridges and freezers, you will quickly notice that every one uses starting components. These are small recips that often start under load.

    If there was a good reason to not use start components, these companies would have found it.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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