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  1. #27
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    Apr 2003
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    Greenback, Tennessee
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    Quote Originally Posted by philjafo View Post
    The company I work for has been putting them on for a long time and I can't say that I see fewer failed compressors with hard starts because failed compressors are fairly infrequent. However I will say that I almost never see a bad run capacitor unless the hard start has also failed.
    My experience has been different. I have replaced many bad compressor run caps on condensers that had OEM start kits that were good.
    -Marty

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    New England
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    Hi - I recently took an interest in these (HSCs), as I'm getting a new household backup generator (5.5KVa, 7KVa peak), and I see videos on YouTube of people starting 4 ton AC Compressors using the generator I'm getting, where the compressor has an HSC. . So I'm writing really to ask 3 things

    - Is it even a good idea to try to start a compressor with an HSC off a generator? That would be my main reason for putting it on my 4-ton Bryant 2007 high-efficiency system?

    - Someone said the HSC should be "matched" to the unit, so a 3rd-party unit (like the $40-on-Amazon CSR-UI 5-2-1) isn't what I want installed? [No, not considering mucking with it myself]

    - Just a philosophical thought - Is it possible HSCs are less common more recently because newer AC units are more energy efficient and so the initial power draw is less, and so the benefit is less?

    Thanks!
    /j

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Southold, NY
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    14,437
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    5 year old thread?

    Your generator needs to produce 3 times the run load at a minimum!
    Start the A/C before anything else!
    Get voltage and phase monsters on all equipment.

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  5. #30
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    Jun 2005
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    New England
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  6. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Paducah, KY
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    If sized right there is no downside. The factory stopped installing them to pinch a few more pennies.

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Beatrice, NE
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    I had heard once, years ago so I don't remember the particulars, but a factory rep said HSC's put more strain on the compressors when starting because of the increased torque. Now I don't remember if it was stress on the winding or mechanical stress. Long story short, this guy didn't recommend them unless the situation called for one, like a non bleed TXV, etc.

    As for personal experience, I have never seen a down side, but then again I am not tearing compressors down to see why they failed either.

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    New Mexico
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    Stress on startup can be easily seen. The difference with a compressor with a start package is evident. I believe the sooner a system can get the high stress of starting a compressor out of the way time wise, the better. Windings flex when starting.

    In the 70's, Carrier had the most accessorized resi units I knew of. The Carrier round. The first I believe to have a pc board to monitor voltage, lo and high pressures sensors, timed start and recycle, and a start package.
    Then to address competition what next appeared had no resemblance to the round in the slightest way. No safeties or system monitoring at all. It was said by the sales people that the internal overload was all that was needed.
    I refused to start the first one I saw because I saw no refrigerant metering device and didn't want to knock out the valves. Later the sales guy told me about the piston system. The pipe looked like any other that needed a TXV.
    These condensers were simply throw away systems. Built with the same mentality that the auto makers built cars at the time.
    Thing is many techs here know how to do it better even if manufactures have no interest.
    I should have played the g'tar on the MTV. MK

    You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.

    USAF 98 Bomb Wing 1960-66 SMW Lu49

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  10. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
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    Scrolls don't need HSC 's because the pressures balance in the compressor almost immediately on shut down. There is no downside to using them on scrolls, as there is almost no startup resistance, but I could see how starting torque might have been a longevity issue in the past on recips. The most current school of thought, if I recall correctly, is that a compressor takes some 500 to 750 milliseconds to reach full speed, but with HSC's they make speed in about a third of that time, prolonging the life of the compressor windings. I agree that mfrs. don't use them now because it saves money, making product pricing more competitive. The nice thing is that with these electronic relays in the kits, they are cheaper, more versatile, and and seem to be very reliable. I don't recommend the PTC device types, as the PTC component will certainly fail, sometimes in a fiery end, especially if the unit is subject to short cycling in a hot environment.

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  12. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Buffalo, NY
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    I've seen hard start kits on some trane condensers. My personal split system for my house I run 1 for the last 2 years, but mine needed it, it wouldn't start up. I put a used condenser in my home, someone kicked it out the back of their van when they put it in the scrap pile. The condenser coil has a dent, but no leak! I might eventually change it if I were to sell my house, so people don't think its a POS. Works great!

  13. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by allan38 View Post
    Scroll type compressors have enough starting torque to start up against a TXV without a start kit.
    That being said, the start kit still reduces starting power consumption on scroll compressors just as it does on reciprocating compressors.

    The start kit is used on compressors that use single phase power. Compressors that use 3 phase power don't use them. 3 phase systems are used primarily in the commercial world. I have seen a few 3 phase compressors in residential systems that had 3 phase power at the home.
    If you are using a capacitor on a 3 phase system, you should go into a different line of work.

  14. #37
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    Mar 2013
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    Billington Heights, NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by allan38 View Post
    Scroll type compressors have enough starting torque to start up against a TXV without a start kit.
    That being said, the start kit still reduces starting power consumption on scroll compressors just as it does on reciprocating compressors.

    The start kit is used on compressors that use single phase power. Compressors that use 3 phase power don't use them. 3 phase systems are used primarily in the commercial world. I have seen a few 3 phase compressors in residential systems that had 3 phase power at the home.
    Quote Originally Posted by lakerhater4 View Post
    If you are using a capacitor on a 3 phase system, you should go into a different line of work.

    your reading comprehension skills are a little lacking, eh?
    This forum requires that you wait 20 seconds between posts. Please try again in 50 seconds.

    Experience - knowing when to get the hell out of the way and plug your ears. "Don't be a sissy. Turn it on!"

    Poodle Head Mikey - "the world is well populated with the unknowing and the uncaring and the stupid."

  15. #38
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    Dec 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by HVAC_Marc View Post
    your reading comprehension skills are a little lacking, eh?
    I was thinking the samething. Unless maybe giving him the benefit of the doubt, he just meant if someone in general thought that. But then again, I'm not so sure about my reading comprehension either . I do know that this thread seems to have a life of its own.

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  17. #39
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    Nov 2006
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    Name:  deadrising3header.jpg
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    ....another thread rises from the DEAD!!!!!!
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist
    Member, IAEI

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