x-13 evap motor

[george alvarez]

Hello guy's I need some direction on where to find trouble shooting information on this motor I heard something about a meter but I rather go old fashion amp probe/ohms ect. thanks in advance. George

[Mr Bill]

Hello guy's I need some direction on where to find trouble shooting information on this motor I heard something about a meter but I rather go old fashion amp probe/ohms ect. thanks in advance. George

Really don't need to trouble shoot them, if there not working or working correctly, more than likely its the module. Pull the motor and take it to the supply house, if it's in warranty and they will give you an new one. If it's not in warranty sell them a new motor.

[ParamountAir]

Special tester for EC motors you can get for about $ (I have used mine a handful of times)- see here < A bit more info then should be in an open forum>
Yes, 99% of the time its the module - sounds like $ to me!

[beenthere]

That was for a VS RCM, and not an X13 motor.

A bit more info then should be in an open forum, I removed the vid.

[blaster50]

you can go to genteq.com they have several videos on ecm & x13

[Cooked]

you can go to genteq.com they have several videos on ecm & x13

You can also look on www.thedealertoolbox.com

[Barrettservices]

I bought that tester from the dealer toolbox and never use it. If im getting power to the motor and its not spinning thats all i need to know so i just replace the motor, no need to spend time on further diagnosis.

[mark beiser]

I bought that tester from the dealer toolbox and never use it. If im getting power to the motor and its not spinning thats all i need to know so i just replace the motor, no need to spend time on further diagnosis.

Except it is usually just the module, the motor is usually fine.
Modules cost less than half of what the whole motor and module cost together.

The most common failure on ECM2.x motors is also field repairable with a $1.60 part, and a soldering iron, in about 20 minutes.
It doesn't even take soldering skills much more advanced than those of a spastic ADD monkey.

[Barrettservices]

let me elaborate: Nearly all my ecm failures are under warranty so I am not billing my customers for parts so that's why I don't even try to diagnose it further because the warehouses around here only stock them as a whole and not just the cap. I would love some insight on that cheap part your talking about:>

[chrisevansac]

Check for 24 v between c and 1,2,3,4 or 5 if its there the motors bad if not check somewhere else. Check for 230v or 120v between l and n

[techonsite]

what he said. if youve got 24 volts and line voltage to it, bad module. Weve had tons of issues with the x13 especially after storms.

[mark beiser]

I would love some insight on that cheap part your talking about:>

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread....+ECM2.3+repair
To bad I didn't have a better camera when I did that one. Next time I repair one, I'll take much better pictures, and do more of an instructional post.

Weve had tons of issues with the x13 especially after storms.

http://www.getzebra.com/products.asp?cat=2

[Cooked]

My experience with ECM or ICM's (as you will) and more specifically the precursor to the X13 goes back about 15 years when I was a product engineer for Carrier. They suffer from transient spikes and almost 2 decades later the problem persists.

[LKJoel]

I bought that tester from the dealer toolbox and never use it. If im getting power to the motor and its not spinning thats all i need to know so i just replace the motor, no need to spend time on further diagnosis.

To clarify for others who will be testing. These motors are supplied with line voltage power all the time. They only energies to the selected "speed" when the correct low voltage tap is energized. Condemning an ECM motor only because it is getting 120V and not spinning could lead to a mis-diagnosis.

[Barrettservices]

I am new here and i guess i should have gave more info. I only condemn when the tap is getting low voltage power and the motor has 120v. Not just 120v alone. Sorry for my vagueness. Thanks for clearing that up. I was just suggesting not spending alot of valuable time figuring out what part of the head might actually be broken. Even though it may be a cheap quick solder piece to fix it, to me that opens up your company for liability. I would rather replace with a complete factory built motor so if it ever caught fire or something they cant come back and say you modified the motor or something. Just my 2C.

[Cooked]

Also worth noting for those unaware, VS ECM motors are DC and not AC. There is a circuit similar to a diode bridge or wheatstone bridge that rectifies the incoming AC to DC. And also, troubleshooting the "control heads" is very simple.

[LKJoel]

I am new here and i guess i should have gave more info. I only condemn when the tap is getting low voltage power and the motor has 120v. Not just 120v alone. Sorry for my vagueness. Thanks for clearing that up. I was just suggesting not spending alot of valuable time figuring out what part of the head might actually be broken. Even though it may be a cheap quick solder piece to fix it, to me that opens up your company for liability. I would rather replace with a complete factory built motor so if it ever caught fire or something they cant come back and say you modified the motor or something. Just my 2C.

I figured you knew what you meant. Just clarifying for others. Thanks

[garyed]

Also worth noting for those unaware, VS ECM motors are DC and not AC. There is a circuit similar to a diode bridge or wheatstone bridge that rectifies the incoming AC to DC. And also, troubleshooting the "control heads" is very simple.

If troubleshooting a VS ECM motor is simple then I'd sure like to know how to do it. If you know of an easy way besides using a special tester designed to diagnose them please reply with " I'll explain in the Pro Residential forum". I'll start a thread on "Diagnosing VS motors". I'm not trying to put you on the spot but I would like to learn how to better diagnose a VS motor on the job & I'm sure a lot of other pros would too. When I condemn a VS motor (usually the module) I always feel I'm guessing out of process of elimination. So far I've been lucky & haven't been wrong yet but it can be an expensive mistake.

[mark beiser]

If troubleshooting a VS ECM motor is simple then I'd sure like to know how to do it. If you know of an easy way besides using a special tester designed to diagnose them please reply with " I'll explain in the Pro Residential forum". I'll start a thread on "Diagnosing VS motors". I'm not trying to put you on the spot but I would like to learn how to better diagnose a VS motor on the job & I'm sure a lot of other pros would too. When I condemn a VS motor (usually the module) I always feel I'm guessing out of process of elimination. So far I've been lucky & haven't been wrong yet but it can be an expensive mistake.

The special testers are nice for when you are troubleshooting odd behavior, or want/need to verify that the controls are sending the correct signals to the motor module, but for 99.9% of VS motor troubleshooting scenarios, all you need is a go/no go tester, and a couple of simple tests with a multimeter.

Basically, just verify the line voltage supply, if present, use something like the cheap tech mate switch to see if the motor runs.
If it has line voltage, and does not run when the control signal is applied with the tech mate, pull the module off and ohm out the motor windings.
If you don't get anything to ground on either of the 3 motor leads, and the resistance is the same lead to lead on all 3, and the motor bearings are good, replace the module only.
If any of the 3 resistance measurements lead to lead are different than the other 2 readings, but there is no reading to ground, or the motor bearings are bad, replace just the motor.
If you get a reading to ground on any of the 3 leads, replace both the motor and module.

You can even make a simple go/no go tester out of a spare 16 pin control harness, and a 9v battery.

[Rodney28334]

I know, I figured with all of the module failures that the suppliers would have figured out it would save every one (except motor manufacturer but motors are out sourced) time and money. I have never seen a ecm motor where it wasnt the module and most the failures have been a few years old. I havent replaced many lately so hopefully the got the problem at least contained.