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Thread: x-13 evap motor

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  1. #1

    x-13 evap motor

    Hello guy's I need some direction on where to find trouble shooting information on this motor I heard something about a meter but I rather go old fashion amp probe/ohms ect. thanks in advance. George

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by george alvarez View Post
    Hello guy's I need some direction on where to find trouble shooting information on this motor I heard something about a meter but I rather go old fashion amp probe/ohms ect. thanks in advance. George
    Really don't need to trouble shoot them, if there not working or working correctly, more than likely its the module. Pull the motor and take it to the supply house, if it's in warranty and they will give you an new one. If it's not in warranty sell them a new motor.
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  3. #3
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    Special tester for EC motors you can get for about $ (I have used mine a handful of times)- see here < A bit more info then should be in an open forum>
    Yes, 99% of the time its the module - sounds like $ to me!
    Last edited by beenthere; 01-09-2013 at 07:31 AM. Reason: DIY diagnostic link and price

  4. #4
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    Also worth noting for those unaware, VS ECM motors are DC and not AC. There is a circuit similar to a diode bridge or wheatstone bridge that rectifies the incoming AC to DC. And also, troubleshooting the "control heads" is very simple.
    The picture in my avatar is of the Houston Ship Channel and was taken from my backyard. I like to sit outside and slap mosquitos while watching countless supertankers, barges and cargo ships of every shape and size carry all sorts of deadly toxins to and fro. It's really beautiful at times.....just don't eat the three eyed fish....

    ¯`·.¸¸ .·´¯`· .¸>÷÷(((°>

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooked View Post
    Also worth noting for those unaware, VS ECM motors are DC and not AC. There is a circuit similar to a diode bridge or wheatstone bridge that rectifies the incoming AC to DC. And also, troubleshooting the "control heads" is very simple.
    If troubleshooting a VS ECM motor is simple then I'd sure like to know how to do it. If you know of an easy way besides using a special tester designed to diagnose them please reply with " I'll explain in the Pro Residential forum". I'll start a thread on "Diagnosing VS motors". I'm not trying to put you on the spot but I would like to learn how to better diagnose a VS motor on the job & I'm sure a lot of other pros would too. When I condemn a VS motor (usually the module) I always feel I'm guessing out of process of elimination. So far I've been lucky & haven't been wrong yet but it can be an expensive mistake.
    Gary
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    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    An engineer designs what he would never work on.
    A technician works on what he would never design.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    If troubleshooting a VS ECM motor is simple then I'd sure like to know how to do it. If you know of an easy way besides using a special tester designed to diagnose them please reply with " I'll explain in the Pro Residential forum". I'll start a thread on "Diagnosing VS motors". I'm not trying to put you on the spot but I would like to learn how to better diagnose a VS motor on the job & I'm sure a lot of other pros would too. When I condemn a VS motor (usually the module) I always feel I'm guessing out of process of elimination. So far I've been lucky & haven't been wrong yet but it can be an expensive mistake.
    The special testers are nice for when you are troubleshooting odd behavior, or want/need to verify that the controls are sending the correct signals to the motor module, but for 99.9% of VS motor troubleshooting scenarios, all you need is a go/no go tester, and a couple of simple tests with a multimeter.

    Basically, just verify the line voltage supply, if present, use something like the cheap tech mate switch to see if the motor runs.
    If it has line voltage, and does not run when the control signal is applied with the tech mate, pull the module off and ohm out the motor windings.
    If you don't get anything to ground on either of the 3 motor leads, and the resistance is the same lead to lead on all 3, and the motor bearings are good, replace the module only.
    If any of the 3 resistance measurements lead to lead are different than the other 2 readings, but there is no reading to ground, or the motor bearings are bad, replace just the motor.
    If you get a reading to ground on any of the 3 leads, replace both the motor and module.

    You can even make a simple go/no go tester out of a spare 16 pin control harness, and a 9v battery.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark beiser View Post
    ................
    Basically, just verify the line voltage supply, if present, use something like the cheap tech mate switch to see if the motor runs.
    If it has line voltage, and does not run when the control signal is applied with the tech mate, pull the module off and ohm out the motor windings.......................
    You can even make a simple go/no go tester out of a spare 16 pin control harness, and a 9v battery.
    I'm going to start a thread in the pro/res section.
    Gary
    -----------
    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    An engineer designs what he would never work on.
    A technician works on what he would never design.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark beiser View Post
    The special testers are nice for when you are troubleshooting odd behavior, or want/need to verify that the controls are sending the correct signals to the motor module, but for 99.9% of VS motor troubleshooting scenarios, all you need is a go/no go tester, and a couple of simple tests with a multimeter.

    Basically, just verify the line voltage supply, if present, use something like the cheap tech mate switch to see if the motor runs.
    If it has line voltage, and does not run when the control signal is applied with the tech mate, pull the module off and ohm out the motor windings.
    If you don't get anything to ground on either of the 3 motor leads, and the resistance is the same lead to lead on all 3, and the motor bearings are good, replace the module only.
    If any of the 3 resistance measurements lead to lead are different than the other 2 readings, but there is no reading to ground, or the motor bearings are bad, replace just the motor.
    If you get a reading to ground on any of the 3 leads, replace both the motor and module.

    You can even make a simple go/no go tester out of a spare 16 pin control harness, and a 9v battery.
    Thank you Mark. You took the time to concisely spell it out when I didn't have time to.

    And Gary, I think a dedicated thread on ECM's is fantastic idea. I may be able to offer some insights into these mysterious black holes. I was once a product engineer for Carrier involved in one of the very first ECM deployments in a commercial airside product.
    The picture in my avatar is of the Houston Ship Channel and was taken from my backyard. I like to sit outside and slap mosquitos while watching countless supertankers, barges and cargo ships of every shape and size carry all sorts of deadly toxins to and fro. It's really beautiful at times.....just don't eat the three eyed fish....

    ¯`·.¸¸ .·´¯`· .¸>÷÷(((°>

    `·.¸¸..· ´¯`·.¸ ¸.·´¯` ·.¸>÷÷(((°>

    .·´¯`· .¸>÷÷(((°>

    LMAOSHMSFOAIDMT

  9. #9
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    That was for a VS RCM, and not an X13 motor.

    A bit more info then should be in an open forum, I removed the vid.
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  10. #10
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    you can go to genteq.com they have several videos on ecm & x13

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaster50 View Post
    you can go to genteq.com they have several videos on ecm & x13
    You can also look on www.thedealertoolbox.com
    The picture in my avatar is of the Houston Ship Channel and was taken from my backyard. I like to sit outside and slap mosquitos while watching countless supertankers, barges and cargo ships of every shape and size carry all sorts of deadly toxins to and fro. It's really beautiful at times.....just don't eat the three eyed fish....

    ¯`·.¸¸ .·´¯`· .¸>÷÷(((°>

    `·.¸¸..· ´¯`·.¸ ¸.·´¯` ·.¸>÷÷(((°>

    .·´¯`· .¸>÷÷(((°>

    LMAOSHMSFOAIDMT

  12. #12
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    I bought that tester from the dealer toolbox and never use it. If im getting power to the motor and its not spinning thats all i need to know so i just replace the motor, no need to spend time on further diagnosis.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barrettservices View Post
    I bought that tester from the dealer toolbox and never use it. If im getting power to the motor and its not spinning thats all i need to know so i just replace the motor, no need to spend time on further diagnosis.
    Except it is usually just the module, the motor is usually fine.
    Modules cost less than half of what the whole motor and module cost together.

    The most common failure on ECM2.x motors is also field repairable with a $1.60 part, and a soldering iron, in about 20 minutes.
    It doesn't even take soldering skills much more advanced than those of a spastic ADD monkey.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

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