Getting paid by billable hours - Page 2
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  1. #14
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    is it fixed yet
    maybe the problem is that some guys (not all cause i know there are lots of good techs out there) want to take advantage of everything they can
    some techs are lazy and slow and would not make any money with this
    some techs think they should be paid even though they dont work or even when they screw everything up they should keep their jobs and keep getting paid more money to do bad work

    now the helper i have gets paid by the job and he has the choice to get paid by the hour or the job but he makes more money by the job and he likes that
    he has lost on a job or 2 in the past few years but he is ok with that because he makes up for it on the next one

    now like i said i dont have it all figured out yet but what i do know is that when i do, a good tech will love it and the bad ones wont want to stay (dont want them anyway)
    i will be happy cause the costs will be fixed
    it will be a win win situation

    i will make sure that whoever is on it will make more money if they work, and the better their work the more they will make

    i can also say that while i am hope to get to this point eventually i wont push it on anyone but i think the problem with performance based pay in any field is people who dont want to work and dont want to improve themselves



  2. #15
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    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
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    If you are paid by the billable hour or some type of piece rate,you are still to be paid overtime ,for over 40hrs in a work week.Lots of companies forget to pay it,see the Federal wage and hour people and you'll get paid.

  3. #16
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    neophytes serendipity

    With all due respect if you can not change the majority of blower motors on residential equipment in a 2hr and 15 min call (including diagnostic time) then you are not the kind of tech I would want working for me anyway


    Edit:
    99.99% of all furnaces we work on are in a basement with plenty of access

  4. #17
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    also the 30 minutes was to change the blower wheel while the motor was being replaced so if you have motor and wheel then you are at 2 hrs + 45 min for diagnosis so again if you cant do this job in 2 hrs and 45 min then why would anyone want you to work for them ?

    and remember this is assuming that these are stock parts that should be on the truck

  5. #18
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    Jun 2005
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    Sure, I could change most of them in 2.25 hours (including diagnostic), especially if there is plenty of access.

    Does your 2.25 hours include travel to the job? That would suck if the 30 minute drive ate into that 2.25 hour total.
    Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey. It's unwise to pay too little.
    When you pay too much, you lose a little money -- that is all. When you pay too little, you may lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do.

    The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot -- it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run. And if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better."

    John Ruskin


  6. #19
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    bandwagoning and or just the plain truth? Dhvac?

    I totally agree that dash, and neophytes serendipity!
    can see through, the true meaning of quality service!
    Its becoming a lost art, in itself!
    and no it doesnt have to be spared at the techs expense or contractors or homowners/business owner
    alot of people assume the worst, automatically its a tech's fault for not being responsible for stocking the van, when the owner , wont do it, after given a list, several times, then its always something or another,,,
    after so long, theres got to be some accountability, u'd think?
    dhvac would u expect or justify that situation?
    how about if someone told u something that is just not true, about another person, and just wants to be bitter and start trouble for another would you go around and help badger somone?
    especially when u can see for yourself?
    the time is there, and u gotta pay for it,,either way just like u charge the customer!
    simple as that!
    its got to be a win win situation, most the time! take or give a few back and forth, but not beat somone up over everything, and then expect them too! and not give anything back?
    c-mon be for real!

  7. #20
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    Dhvac

    Let say , i replace a blower motor in 1. hr with diagnostic time and travel time, and leave the callu log it in , and have me go to the nest call, i bill th custome 1,5
    what u going to do, whine and say ur not going to pay me because, u knew i was nt there that long and it didnt take me that long?
    yet u billed the customer, for three hrs total time?
    dont side step it answer it, without forcing anything but ur bill on the customer,and ur pay on the tech, so to speak, like u said in ur post!

    and this is assuming u wont stock your van!
    i dont mind eating a small company's calls up in a hurry, i just dont like to work myself out of a job, while the boss takes all the calls for himself, and his pet? and cant pay u nothing on payday, for not being lazy, and for outdoing him and yourself! and doing all his call backs and lousy work, that I have to go back and fix it right, since the customers history reflects and the problems have been ongoing, and never fixed right!
    i could give examples , but i'd be here all day, thats how frequent this was!

    [Edited by isitfixedyet on 12-08-2006 at 03:05 PM]

  8. #21
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    Jun 2005
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    Originally posted by dhvac
    also the 30 minutes was to change the blower wheel while the motor was being replaced so if you have motor and wheel then you are at 2 hrs + 45 min for diagnosis so again if you cant do this job in 2 hrs and 45 min then why would anyone want you to work for them ?

    and remember this is assuming that these are stock parts that should be on the truck
    I had one that took longer than that to get the wheel off. Even after peeling the blades from the center section of the wheel, the darn thing still wouldn't fit through the side of the housing. Someone butched it in last time, and there was no way I got that wheel off in 30 minutes.

    I got it off with brute force. Even if I had a Sawzall at the time, there was no way to use it to cut the shaft. Maybe I could have cut the center section down to the hub and peeled that off, too.

    BTW, you have to get the wheel off to replace the motor, and it's probably going to get bent in the process anyways, so what's with the "extra" 30 minutes to replace the blower wheel? If the wheel is not replaced (old one reused), is the 30 minutes taken away?
    Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey. It's unwise to pay too little.
    When you pay too much, you lose a little money -- that is all. When you pay too little, you may lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do.

    The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot -- it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run. And if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better."

    John Ruskin


  9. #22
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    Laws of wages and labor commission , in each state

    do not deviate,,
    theyre there for a reason!?!
    DHVAC
    its apparent that you disagree with them, or stocking your van, and cant figure out why somone would not let somone go thats lazy, and sees their calls after eachone and turns in his paper work daily?
    we all know it doesnt take more than two weeks to see it! if somone cant make the cut, would u let him go on , working for you?
    of course if he fixed your call backs, and replaced parts you didnt want to go back on and replace, and further diagnosed the underlying problems , not just the symptoms, and then u'd go to the customer and make things worse, and try to salvage ur reputation, rather than letting the tech finish, and save the customers equipment, than just ur reputation or personal ego?
    problems, cause and affect, fixing the problem or just the symptom?
    no if this is lazy let me know, and if u been listening to another talk without knowing , let me know, and i can try to set some of this straight, but its getting old now! fcol
    now im not whining , but put urself in my shoes would u like somone doing this to u? it gets alot worse, but i cant go into all the details, so i wont!
    just ask me if u dont know, and i'll tell, all about it, without forcing anything upon u,,
    but then that way u'll know for sures, whos lying here!

  10. #23
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    is it fixedyet
    i have a feeling you are dragging something into this thay i have no idea what it is. obviously you feel that a boss is screwing you or did screw you. this is not what i am talking about
    what i am talking about is being able to pay someone top wages , more then they can make at any other company in the area and not be stuck trying to find stupid work when its slow to keep his "hours up"

    now as a small business ownere i do not have a tech yet i do all that and i do all the installs also i only have a helper

    now when i hire a guy i know there will be times he doesnt work for days or weeks ata time due to things being slow and that is common here

    but that doesnt mean that i cant find a guy pay him enough that he could relax during a week off and not hurt for money if he doesnt blow it all when he makes it

    because in my area a good resi tech would love to get $20 an hour and i think that a good tech would be worth that and more BUT i will be damned if i am going to pay someone 20+ an hour to sweep the floor or wash a truck just cause its slow
    i am now talking about trying to rip anyone off, and if the book says 4 hrs for something and you get it done in 20 minutes then yes you get a 4 hr pay no questions asked UNLESS you took 20 minutes and didnt do it right then i have questions
    the times in my book are very easy for me to achieve 99% of the time

    yes you will lose on a job every once in a while thats the one down side the idea is it shouldnt happen often

    like i said i dont have this in place yet but when i do believe me i will make it worth while cause the idea is to find and keep good people and get rid of the bad ones

    one more thing
    i have no probem being corected because i dont know everything i have no problems telling a customer or employee that i dont know something i have no problem telling someone i need to ask for help before i give them an answer

    i have a good reputation in my area because i either fix it right or i eat it
    i dont like eating jobs so i try to do it right the first time once in a while i dont do it right the first time so i redo it free

    so anyway isitfixedyet i stick by what i said before if someone doesnt like how i have it setup when its all done its because they are not good at their job or because they are lazy either way probably not the person i want to keep around

  11. #24
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    neophytes serendipity
    yes i have also had them take longer then that but how many?
    one or two in the last 10 years
    so what i am saying is ok sorry it sucks but you dint make your $30 and hour on this job because it took so long you only made $15 and hour.............it sucks and tech could be pissed
    BUT
    the last 40 or 50 jobs you were on you got the done ahead of schedule and you made more then your $30 an hour mabye in some cases even double that
    so are you going to complain about one bad one when you have made so much on all the past jobs?

    heck if you average out the day you would probably still be above your hourly average

    and no if you read up i had a flat fee for getting to a job figured in
    not sure what it would be yet cause i dont use this yet but someday hope to
    now again read back through what i have said i want to do this to allow a guy to make a good living and not have to worry about making up hours just to keep someone busy when its slow

    all you guys that swear you want 40 hrs a week are full of sh!t because if you boss told you he would still pay you for 40 and you could be home for 20 of it you wouldnt turn him down

    guys want their paycheck thats it, same as owners same as everyone because as much as we may like our jobs we are not going in on our days off for free because we would rather work then do anything else

    i am trying to figure out how to get a guy the same or more money in the same amount or less time

    i know it can work and i will make it work when the time comes and i will have techs that will brag about how good of a job they have and thats the idea behind it not to rip people off


    on a side note i do feel sorry for some of the guys here cause you must have worked for some real *******s in the past

  12. #25
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    Good one!

    Originally posted by dhvac
    is it fixedyet
    i have a feeling you are dragging something into this thay i have no idea what it is. obviously you feel that a boss is screwing you or did screw you. this is not what i am talking about ,(a),,, I have a feeling ur draggin a tech in this, or u talked to somone that doesnt know what theyre talking about or only want u to know half of it, but since ur a employer , u know theres two sides to this, and u can sure remember when u started , right? not that i am just starting out, lol?(a) ,,, oh of course not, u wouldnt do that!
    what i am talking about is being able to pay someone top wages , more then they can make at any other company in the area and not be stuck trying to find stupid work when its slow to keep his "hours up" (a) stupid work? oh cmon, either u got work or u dont , either ur good and busy or ur lazy and slow, if not u better generate some work, or get out ther and learn how to drum up some business, off the companies that are successful and stay competative, or not promise a guy u can help him make ends meet and give him the whole pic of being part time or full time, and what to expect, so u dont lead him on to stay on, and as for the other former contractors, its like a bad boss or a bad employee that goes both ways!
    theres alot thatl keep him around to do the dirty work, late calls,and weekend calls, and all their call backs, and warranty calls, and no money calls, and screen them, but u pay him and expect him to do things ur way, but when they dont go the way as expected u , cant figure out how come things are what stupid work found is what stupid gets!

    now as a small business ownere i do not have a tech yet i do all that and i do all the installs also i only have a helper (a),,,
    so ur the tech and the dispatcher, and ur installer and u get all the service calls, when its slow?

    now when i hire a guy i know there will be times he doesnt work for days or weeks ata time due to things being slow and that is common here
    (a),,, days and weeks at a time, do u not pay youre bills and work for somone waiting around for days and weeks at a time? is that fair to u?
    but that doesnt mean that i cant find a guy pay him enough that he could relax during a week off and not hurt for money if he doesnt blow it all when he makes it
    (a),,, so , how much is enough, becasue my normal bills are around 4200 a month, thats not including other bills, can u cover that , for days and weeks at a time or your own?

    because in my area a good resi tech would love to get $20 an hour and i think that a good tech would be worth that and more BUT i will be damned if i am going to pay someone 20+ an hour to sweep the floor or wash a truck just cause its slow
    i am now talking about trying to rip anyone off, and if the book says 4 hrs for something and you get it done in 20 minutes then yes you get a 4 hr pay no questions asked UNLESS you took 20 minutes and didnt do it right then i have questions
    the times in my book are very easy for me to achieve 99% of the time
    (a),,, so if u have a tech sittin around , u just feel good about cutting him a check, cause hes on salary, right?

    yes you will lose on a job every once in a while thats the one down side the idea is it shouldnt happen often
    if ur that small u should just keep a tech slash installer, and thats it, cause if u dont have the work to grow, or business sense to grow, then
    somethings wrong! and its not the techs u hire its, the reputation of the work u do! if itsn not that then , u simply need to hire, somone thats seasonal or short term or just on call, such as a sub, and let him do side jobs, so u can rest assure he can feed his family too!
    like i said i dont have this in place yet but when i do believe me i will make it worth while cause the idea is to find and keep good people and get rid of the bad ones

    (a),,,theres usually no bad ones, theres alot of good ones, and i say ones, or good, because u gotta see throught he bad ones! to get to a sunny day, or a better day!
    i worked with some hacks, and i trained them, no they didnt like it , but i had to work less, and put things on auto pilot, rather than go around complaining that i cant get good help or anyone to help me!

    one more thing
    i have no probem being corected because i dont know everything i have no problems telling a customer or employee that i dont know something i have no problem telling someone i need to ask for help before i give them an answer
    (a),,, feel free to jump right in,,,both feet!

    i have a good reputation in my area because i either fix it right or i eat it
    i dont like eating jobs so i try to do it right the first time once in a while i dont do it right the first time so i redo it free
    so whats ur problem, why cant u grow, ? do u keep it small so u dont have to go through any growing pains? or u cant handle a growing business? or u cant find help, because u send them on their way, in not paying them, while ur slow?
    and there u are,???
    I would pay a salary,and figure out what business , i do have and advertise ,and grow, my business, and not get lazy and complacent and blame everyone else for not finding good help and staying small, or adjusting his calls and hours to stay small or keep him on the borderline of wanting more out of life! or from his career!

    so anyway isitfixedyet,(A) YES? i stick by what i said before if someone doesnt like how i have it setup when its all done (a) ,,,, AUTOMATICALLY<???its because they are not good at their job or because they are lazy either way probably not the person i want to keep around
    aautomatically, its gotta be there fault, cause youre not like that to cheat a tech out of his money , but u wont make it workable, by seeing what u can afford, and whats ur minimum and average profit etc and out going etc, and what it takes to be competitve,and affordable to hire and stay in business, and then u have to pay somone or invest in somone to grow with, unless ur one of those that dont want to grow, or want the headaches? cause u cant handle sharing the profits! bottom line, red flags we all know the kind!
    put it how u want but it only comes up one way,,
    thats how u do business, u get back what u give, and im sorry thats just my opinon, and everyones got one, but u jumped in on a conversation when somone esle was talking ,and u stepped up, so i just answered u, so pls dont get me wrong, it is what it is!

    [Edited by isitfixedyet on 12-08-2006 at 05:30 PM]

  13. #26
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    they want it both ways!

    they want a tech,,
    to wait all day for a call to come in, and get paid nothing to pay there bills ,and not do side jobs or look for work, and be loyal.
    lol
    then they want to pay a tech flat rate, and bill the customer alot more!
    then they want to pay the tech less,
    residential? lol
    fly by night mom and pop shops!

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