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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Desert Southwest
    Posts
    630
    Quote Originally Posted by 22nomo View Post
    My eyes hurt, my head hurts and my wife says I mumble about things she says to me as being BI or AI. I spent the Christmas holiday week off finishing my trainer and playing with the program. I think I may be turning into a controls guy or a need my head examined.
    Programming isn't everyone's cup of tea. The PCG stuff isn't half bad and there are a few resources if your here in the Phoenix Area.
    If you can't fix it with JB Weld, Duct Tape, and Ty Wire it has to be replaced.
    No good deed goes unpunished.
    If you want to take off friday to go fishing then make sure you train your helper right.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Near Philly
    Posts
    511
    Quote Originally Posted by 22nomo View Post
    I have been in this industry for thirty years now, in the service side of it mostly. A few months back I took my first course for BACnet MS/TP training. They offered us a small training package that included the tools cd, bluetooth connector and PCG controller for a very good price. I bought it myself cause the company balked at the price which I thought was very reasonable. I have since built a training board for myself and a couple of the guys that went thru the class with me. I have already put in many, many hours of my own time building my little trainer and learning this stuff and I know it is only the surface of a deep pool (hole?). I did some controls work on older systems, Alerton, Novar, Tracer/Tracker, even Carrier Parker but nothing like this. I must say it is very difficult at the beginning but at the same time it is very interesting to design your own program. My eyes hurt, my head hurts and my wife says I mumble about things she says to me as being BI or AI. I spent the Christmas holiday week off finishing my trainer and playing with the program. I think I may be turning into a controls guy or a need my head examined.
    Good for you! I spent my time doing service work, no regrets. Control work is harder on the head and less on the body. My company tries to protect the senior service guys from the heavy duty stuff. They still get it for the big stuff, even though they have help, it still makes for a ball breaking day. On a cold day, cranes, rigging, all the stuff that has to put on the roof, it can make for a lousy day at work. When I need to drag my PC to the roof with a couple of tools and a meter, I know that's pretty much physically all I need to do.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Az
    Posts
    73
    Quote Originally Posted by desert guy View Post
    Programming isn't everyone's cup of tea. The PCG stuff isn't half bad and there are a few resources if your here in the Phoenix Area.
    I am in the Phoenix area. Don't take that wrong, i'm not complaining. I remember when I was still learning the service side, i went home plenty of times with my eyes and head hurting. So I look on this as the same learning curve. The first plunge there is a lot to learn.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Az
    Posts
    73
    Quote Originally Posted by mechdorn View Post
    Good for you! I spent my time doing service work, no regrets. Control work is harder on the head and less on the body. My company tries to protect the senior service guys from the heavy duty stuff. They still get it for the big stuff, even though they have help, it still makes for a ball breaking day. On a cold day, cranes, rigging, all the stuff that has to put on the roof, it can make for a lousy day at work. When I need to drag my PC to the roof with a couple of tools and a meter, I know that's pretty much physically all I need to do.
    Thanks, I have heard some of the others say it can give you a slight advantage knowing how the equipment is supposed to work. That does make sense and i'm not new to computers just this level of programming. The more i play with building programs the more interesting it is becoming as i sit here close to bedtime typing,lol. the alarm goes off at 4:00am and i'll start again. The way i look at it is if I keep this up in a few years I should be fairly accomplished in controls, at least that is the plan..we'll see. Like you I still go out on problem jobs as well and probably will for sometime still, but thats ok, I still like it as it has been my livelyhood for thirty years and I find hard to turn my back on it completely. Although I think it will happen eventually.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Several Miles from Sane
    Posts
    1,457
    Quote Originally Posted by 22nomo View Post
    ... I think I may be turning into a controls guy or a need my head examined.
    No Dude, Both !In the trades (install/service/on-site) since 80', controls guy since 95'. I can't even think of doing anything else, it's a love hate thing now !

    Sorry, and good luck !!!!!!!!!
    If sense were so common everyone would have it !

    All opinions expressed are my own. Any advice provided is based on personal experience, generally accepted fact or publicly available information. As such, it is worth exactly what you paid for it, not a penny more not a penny less !!

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    4,381
    I want to learn controls. I'm very interested in that side. I just have no clue where to begin. I deal with BMS everyday . . Just as the guy calling in to different companies who run the sites I handle the mechanical end of. Many times over my knowledge of the equipment help them out, vice versa ... where does one find out the how other than working as an apprentice?

    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,449
    "Its ALWAYS controls"... A good service tech will find out what is wrong to the best of their ability before calling on controls. A good controls tech will find out what is wrong to the best of their ability before calling on service. The ability of a technician to figure out what the problem is, is normally only limited by specialized training or tools whether it be controls or service. Do not just assume that it is another departments issue and dismiss the problem. If you are dismissing problems, you will soon find that you are dismissing customers. Always try to put yourself in the customers shoes, they do not understand how it works or want to know. They just want it fixed efficiently and as cost effective as possible, paying for 2 techs is usually not a comforting thing for a customer... "Its NEVER controls"
    "It's always controls"

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Az
    Posts
    73
    Quote Originally Posted by Cagey57 View Post
    No Dude, Both !In the trades (install/service/on-site) since 80', controls guy since 95'. I can't even think of doing anything else, it's a love hate thing now !

    Sorry, and good luck !!!!!!!!!
    Lol, actually that somehow gives me confidence that i'm making the right move.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Several Miles from Sane
    Posts
    1,457
    Quote Originally Posted by skwsproul View Post
    "Its ALWAYS controls"... A good service tech will find out what is wrong to the best of their ability before calling on controls. A good controls tech will find out what is wrong to the best of their ability before calling on service. The ability of a technician to figure out what the problem is, is normally only limited by specialized training or tools whether it be controls or service. Do not just assume that it is another departments issue and dismiss the problem. If you are dismissing problems, you will soon find that you are dismissing customers. Always try to put yourself in the customers shoes, they do not understand how it works or want to know. They just want it fixed efficiently and as cost effective as possible, paying for 2 techs is usually not a comforting thing for a customer... "Its NEVER controls"
    Agree 100% as it relates to service ! However...

    In Bid-Spec the Mechanical Contractor/GC ALWAYS blame controls first. We (the "Controls guys"), are always the last one in the building/in front of the customer. After spending years troubleshooting problems, confirming mechanical issues and NOT controls then telling the MC what it (their Mechanical Problem) was I finally wised up (yea, I know, my problem. Too many years in service I guess) ! I will no longer tell the MC what their problem is only that is is NOT a controls problem. They have a habit of using the TC guy to do their mechanical troubleshooting/diagnostic work for them. In the last few years the MC's only have a few real Techs and they keep them on the big problems not Bid-Spec jobs. Just sayin' !
    If sense were so common everyone would have it !

    All opinions expressed are my own. Any advice provided is based on personal experience, generally accepted fact or publicly available information. As such, it is worth exactly what you paid for it, not a penny more not a penny less !!

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Several Miles from Sane
    Posts
    1,457
    To answer the OP.

    The "Control Guy" does the following, Takes the Control system design and :
    1. programs the field controllers.
    2. combines all the field controllers and all other related control stuff (OEM units, etc) into a network connected to a supervisory controller (Head End).
    3. creates all needed Head End logic to perform the SOO and what ever else some crazy engineer dreamed up
    4. Combines the above into a GUI, if required.
    5. Coordinates the access or connection of the Supervisory Controller to the end users LAN and/or the Web.
    6. Works with the IT people to generate messaging/alarming as needed.
    7. Works with the TAB and Cx people to finalize the job.
    8. Trains the End User on the entire system (half of which they forget)
    9. Hopefully gets to provide Service on the system after the warranty (at a profit this time)!

    10 through 63 (warranty period)... Deals with stupid questions from people that have no clue how the Mechanical Equipment works let alone how the BAS controls it all but they looked at a picture (graphic) and some little spinney thing wasn't going round and round so "it must be a controls problem" !
    If sense were so common everyone would have it !

    All opinions expressed are my own. Any advice provided is based on personal experience, generally accepted fact or publicly available information. As such, it is worth exactly what you paid for it, not a penny more not a penny less !!

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    1,460
    Deals with stupid questions from people that have no clue how the Mechanical Equipment works let alone how the BAS controls it all but they looked at a picture (graphic) and some little spinney thing wasn't going round and round so "it must be a controls problem" !

    haha. It sounds like you must have done work for the same people I used to work for.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Several Miles from Sane
    Posts
    1,457
    Quote Originally Posted by ncboston View Post
    haha. It sounds like you must have done work for the same people I used to work for.
    Not the same people but people with the same level (or Lack) of experience.

    Kind of a hi-jack but...

    I have one customer that says "Graphics make dumb people think they are smart". I have to agree to a great degree.

    But I will keep doing controls as long as my Head doesn't explode or implode from stress or from other peoples stupidity.
    If sense were so common everyone would have it !

    All opinions expressed are my own. Any advice provided is based on personal experience, generally accepted fact or publicly available information. As such, it is worth exactly what you paid for it, not a penny more not a penny less !!

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    304
    I love when cutting over existing equipment on jobs, and then hearing "it works fine for years". When you can finally see all the bad valves binding damper and broken actuators on a pretty graphic, I get the blame. Not the years of neglect.

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