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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    West Monroe, LA
    Posts
    1,532
    Quote Originally Posted by SBKold View Post
    Return still a little shy for the cfm requirement of the 4 ton also that 100k 95%er in full high speed.

    The return grille could be larger and please remove that filtrete filter!

    What's are the other pros opinion on the return being single side entry on 1400-1600?
    I agree with you. The current return by my calculations is only good for about 1300 cfm max. Hopefully the installing dealer with pick on this and make it right along with the rest of the job.

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Central Virginia
    Posts
    43
    Here are the items I have captured so for that I'll discuss with them when they come back:

    1. Reroute gas pipe and support it better
    2. Reroute flute and intake pipes to not be directly in front of coil access
    3. Vent intake to the outside
    4. Cap 3/4" condensate pipe
    5. Knock over flange on the back of the return duct

    What type of return filter would you recommend instead of these?



    "Old school" fiberglass filters like these?



    Down the road I plan to add a CleanEffects filter, it is just not in the budget right now, especially with the furnace upgrade. Will that be a worthwhile investment?

    The half of my basement that is under the living room area is finished, so I don't know that adding a 2nd return from there is an option. The guys that finished the one half my basement did cut out another return, but I have since blocked it off, as I use radiant floor heat there and have never found a need to open the A/C vents in there during the summer months, except when there are a lot of people there. It's a home theater/game room.

    Here's a shot of the return:



    And with the wood cover removed. Maybe I should permanently seal this off with tape? You can see a lot of dirt has been sucked through. You can make out the brand new return duct work behind the opening that was installed last week.



    Again, I really appreciate all the advice you guys have given me already!

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Central Virginia
    Posts
    43
    Didn't catch the recommendation on the float switch, so here's my revised "bullet list" for when they come back:

    1. Reroute gas pipe and support it better
    2. Reroute flute and intake pipes to not be directly in front of coil access
    3. Vent intake to the outside
    4. Cap 3/4" condensate pipe
    5. Knock over flange on the back of the return duct
    6. Install an overflow/float switch on evaporator pan secondary drain, or lower at bottom of furnace
    7. Look for alternative to Filtrete for the return filter

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    North Dakota
    Posts
    518
    My installers would not have a job any longer if I was to see work like this (as has been said not the worst install ive seen)
    though surely not a quality install by any standards

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Tallahassee, FL
    Posts
    6,038
    Here is my opinion on the filter.

    Id have a media air cleaner by aprilaire (best) or honeywell (good) installed by the furnace and not use a filter in the grill.

    While it may be another addl $ it would be a nice upgrage to rebuild return connection to allow bottom of furnace to be connected as well.

    In the wall of pride section Jimmyed has posted pics of what I'm talking about in some of his installs.

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    North Dakota
    Posts
    518
    in the diag. the supplies come rite off the end of the trunk is this a correct drawing as they should have a 18" buffer back from the end of the trunk for eq. pressure

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    2,878
    Don't agree about the 3/4 cap since the drain also connects to the furnace drain and capping could cause havoc with the furnace drain. Furnace drains work a lot better if run seperate.

    If you can't afford the high dollar trane clean affects, how are you going to afford the high dollar filters?

    My favorite is also the aprilaire mechanical filter like others have stated.
    Give a man a fish, he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he will eat for a lifetime.

    Give a man a capacitor, doesn't know what to do. Teach a man to install it, now he knows everything.

  8. #34
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    3,494
    Rather than the super-restrictive pleated "accordian" type 1" filters, just use the old school 1" fiberglass filters and spray them with Endust or Pledge before you install them. You'll get better filtration for lots less restriction to air flow. I've seen these thin pleated filters plug in as little as two weeks, and cause a horribly high utility bill! They need to remove them from the market! IMO anyway. Especially if they are made from filter paper much like the coffee filters in your coffee maker....horrible product.

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    The South
    Posts
    2,189
    What size is your home heated space? Your location?

    Basement is unconditioned?

    You need a pipe for combustion air from an exterior wall.

    You currently have just one return? if so, and if it is feasible, I would add another return for improved airflow and comfort. And a previous poster suggested a whole house media filter which I would also recommend especially since furnace will be exchanged.

    Since you have propane backup, you should run HP as low as it can be as long as it is keeping your inside comfort temp maintained.

    Outdoor sensor should be located where it will not be affected by any heat source and especially not hit by sunlight.

    Just a few ideas.

    Good Luck!
    IMO

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Central Virginia
    Posts
    43
    Quote Originally Posted by mechanical'al View Post
    in the diag. the supplies come rite off the end of the trunk is this a correct drawing as they should have a 18" buffer back from the end of the trunk for eq. pressure
    Sorry, that drawing was not quite right. Here's an actual picture from the crawl space below the pantry and half bath area. There are only 3 supplies, not 4 as I thought.



    And I found this pic of the original furnace install, which was done in 1997. I purchased the house in the fall of 1999. The picture below was taken in 2005.


  11. #37
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    2,878
    Kind of embarrasing when the RNC guys did a better job.......seperate furnace and AC drains.....NOT the BEST, I said better
    Give a man a fish, he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he will eat for a lifetime.

    Give a man a capacitor, doesn't know what to do. Teach a man to install it, now he knows everything.

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Central Virginia
    Posts
    43
    Quote Originally Posted by tigerdunes View Post
    What size is your home heated space?
    3,526 sq. ft. of heated space. But only 2032 sq. ft. will be heated by this furnace. I got radiant floor heat in the home theater area and master bath (vents closed on those rooms during winter months). I also got a separate air handler with a 1.5 ton unit for the 604 sq. ft. of living space on the 2nd floor. I had a water to water to air heat exchanger heat upstairs for the first 6 years I owned the house, but after having the pipes up there burst twice, costing $70k and $20k in damage, I'm now running 5kw heat strips for heat up there which is ok for now as those are only used for guest quarters, but once my 2 daughters move up there, I'll definitely be looking to upgrading to a heat pump system up there.

    Your location?
    Central Virginia. My zip code is 22920

    Basement is unconditioned?
    About 50% is. Here's the basement layout. Furnace location is marked by the red rectangle:



    According to the installation manual, I would need 625 sq. ft. of unconfined space with 8' ceilings to get away without venting intake to the outside. I got 760 sq. ft. and 9' ceilings. Would you guys still recommend venting intake to the outside?

    You currently have just one return? if so, and if it is feasible, I would add another return for improved airflow and comfort. And a previous poster suggested a whole house media filter which I would also recommend especially since furnace will be exchanged.
    I'll be sure to discuss those options with them when they return.

    Since you have propane backup, you should run HP as low as it can be as long as it is keeping your inside comfort temp maintained.
    Thanks. So maybe the xl950 was right when it suggested running the HP all the way down to 0F?

    Outdoor sensor should be located where it will not be affected by any heat source and especially not hit by sunlight.
    Thanks. Yes, the corner where it is right now is definitely no optimal as there is no air flow and heat from a window right below it..

  13. #39
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Upper Michigan
    Posts
    3,588
    Wow is all I can say, I would be embarrassed to show that install to a HO. No intake air, ducts not snapped together, case coil over hanging, the gas pipe would break off if you looked at it wrong. I would want that thing completely re installed. I hope the company does some justice for you.

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