There is economic balance point and capacity balance point....At almost $3 for propane that is probably correct and you have to factor in comfort into the economy's. I am from up north and I WAS used to gas heat.....have learned to live with heatpump heat....
Give a man a fish, he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he will eat for a lifetime.
Give a man a capacitor, doesn't know what to do. Teach a man to install it, now he knows everything.
In their defense, the floor drain is almost impossible to get to since there is now cabinetry for a wet bar built over it. I hope it never clogs!
Originally Posted by beshvac
I spoke to my sales rep and he admitted it was his fault for not being aware that using a non-communicating indoor unit meant that the outdoor unit would not function as such at all. He offered a very fair deal for swapping out the furnaces that will not cost me much additional money at all. And they will address all my concerns with the original install. I'll be sure to post pics once they are done.
Also, I have been thinking about taking the next logical step and setup zones as well. Here's a revised drawing of the 1st floor of my house, showing how I was thinking about zoning it. The orange rectangles represents all the registers on the main floor. The blue is my single return, and the green is where the XL950 is mounted.
My understanding is that for zoning to work properly, all registers needs to be dampened somehow, right? The main issue we have right now is that the kids room (zone 3) is always very cold and I have to keep the thermostat set at 72 all night long to keep it in the mid 60s in there. I got 2 little girls, 4 months and 19 months.
Zone 4 is my office and there are computers running all the time, so it gets really hot with the tstat set at 72. But in the summer time, I need all the cooling I can get in there.
Zone 2 is the master bedroom, and it also gets uncomfortable warm at night, and this is with 2 of the 3 vents manually shut. In the summer time, I need all 3 vents going to keep in cool.
Zone 1 is the rest of the house, which does not really need heat (or cooling in the summer at night), but I don't don't have a choice right now since that is where the tstat is located and I do want heat in those rooms during the day. I tend to keep the registers in the panty and 1/2 bath closed in the winter and open the one in the 1/2 bath in the summer.
I'm thinking about getting them to give me a quote for adding zoning to my new system. From what I can tell, I would need 8 6" round retrofit dampers for zones 2-4 (Trane Part # ZDAMPRRMA0006A) and then a single bottom mount 10x20 damper (Trane Part # ZDAMPBMMA1020A) for zone 1. And of course 3 sensors for zones 2-4. Either wireless or wired, depending on cost. And finally the ComfortLink II Zoning Assembly (ZZONEPNLAC52ZA) which I believe includes discharge air sensor, static pressure transducer and housing, supply & return air static probes and connecting tubing. Would I need any additional mixed air sensors?
Given my issues and layout, does adding zoning make sense in my case? If so, I want to make sure I tell them exactly what I should get so that they don't mess it up the first time. I think that by not heating/cooling zone 1 at night at the levels I'm force to right now, it will make a significant difference in my energy consumption.
When they get done swapping out the new furnace, I want it to look like this
Above is of course form the wall of pride. I love the curves on the duct work and the fact that there is also a bottom return! I was wondering about why return has such a sharp 90 angle going into the furnace. Can't be good for turbulence. At least the original install had a 45 angle.
We install a lot of XL20i systems and I would be embarressed if my installers put one in like that. They should have made a nice transition to the coil. With the coil right on top of the furnace you will not be getting the best efficiency that way since the air is probably missing a bit of the coil. You also really need a furnace intake pipe as others mentioned. Wow is all I can say. I hope they reinstall that furnace and fix everything up for you and yeah the XC95M would be a great upgrade for propane and to get the full communication out of the system.
Take a look at my YouTube videos below for how we put a XL20i system in.
I forgot to mention the first thing I noticed after they installed the XL950, was that it didn't look level to me. Sure enough, it definitely is not...
I could easily fix it myself, but I'll make them do it. I know with digital thermostats, it generally doesn't matter unlike those old ones with the mercury float switches in them, but still. Heck, even my Nest thermostat that the XL950 replaced had a leveling bubble built into it. Maybe Trane should consider adding one to their flagship model. Lol.
I think they did a good job with the outdoor unit. Let me know if you guys think there is anything here that should be corrected.
The low voltage wire from the outdoor unit won't reach the new furnace since it currently terminates at the relay panel that will be going away. Should I have them run new wire, or let them splice in an extension? Since we're only talking 2 wires, I'll probably just go back in and solder and heat shrink them later and get rid of those stupid twist on caps that I despise. The wiring being too short will also be the case with the wires going to the XL950 and outdoor temp sensor, since they all terminate at the relay panel right now. I rather they spent their time getting the duct work and piping done correctly this time.
The outdoor unit is nicely installed. They took pride in rhat install with the zip ties and even put a clip on the power wire liquid tight.
I wouldn't worry about the wire cap's If your that OCD just solder em like you said.
I thought that picture of the nice install was yours fixed I was like "WOW he must have got the D Install Team that day and The A Team fixed it" But saw you found the picture LOL
Show that to your contractor and ask why your's doesn't look so pretty?
Glad your getting it fixed Can't wait for picture's
Don't zone your unit. It would take big $ to do it right. Look into a multizone Mitsubishi and that will outperform the zoning.
I thought you would like jimmyeds installs. Keep in mind he is probably THE best in the country and so far no one can match his quality or custom metalwork.
Ps Don't buy the cleaneffects use the savings and put towards mini splits for supplemental heating
you seem kinda harsh ..... its not that bad not everyone is perfect.......
Originally Posted by SkyHeating
it was working.... played with it.... now its broke.... whats the going hourly rate for HVAC repair
Appreciate the advice on the Mitsubishi mini splits. When I put in my zip code, the company that installed my XL20i system pops up at the top as a diamond dealer. They do have a great rep, so hopefully this initial furnace install was just a fluke. I also talked to them this past summer about a Waterfurnace system 7 ground based system, but unfortunately the fact that my current furnace caught fire and burned up, forced me to accelerate my plans and look at a quick air based solution.
Originally Posted by SBKold
Btw, the XL950 is now throwing that 140.01 error again. Can't wait to get the communicating solution installed.
My neighbor has a Mitsubishi mini split and loves it. I'll look into that for not only the room at the main level that needs it, but also as a replacement for the upstairs system with the 5kw heating strip.
Awesome advice everyone. This forum rocks!
I would agree. I think these guys have been put in more of a bad light than they deserve. They are stepping up to the plate and will make it right and eat the labor cost of swapping out units, and then some. The 17.5" wide furnace mated with the 21" wide coil is actually quite acceptable according to the Trane installation manual. The drip tray consumes the outer few inches, so airflow is not restricted. That said, it does look odd, and I'm glad the modulation 100k BTU furnace going in will be 21" wide and match the coil.
Originally Posted by carmon
I would not have installed a forced air LP furnace.
Two heat pumps with electric strips totaling ~16kW ( 3, 3, 5, 5) [ or the radiant heat as back-up).
_ K _ I _ S _ S
_ .... K eep I t S imple & S incere
No one has addressed the overall objectives. Seems like < 60,000 BTU/Hr may be required.
Design temperature is likely ~18'F for Central / SouthEastern VA
Given the stated Significant history of failures ( two piping incidents for radiant heating and burning up a furnace),
I probably would have run Fast and Far Away from this job.
It's either Simple or No Bid.
My reputation is at Risk - and NOT every job is worth it.
_ RISKS must be evaluated EVERY Day._
_ Looks like a high probability of a losing proposition for any mechanical contractor in several aspects
because it Violates the KISS Principle.
It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE
with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE
Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities