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Thread: Fiscal cliff

  1. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    If this is not being a socialist, then i must be an extreme socialist.

    I would not treat an animal this way, why would i want to treat a fellow human being this way, especially if it is within my societies power to assist.

    There are many ideas, that are managed badly (governance), that does not mean the idea itself is bad.
    You have a real misunderstanding of what a Socialist is. I believe in socialism at societal levels. When we refer to someone as being a Socialist, we are referring to those who believe that socialism belongs in government, with government being responsible for the social welfare of the citizens. That has never worked in the past, and cannot work for long term...ever.

    People need to be initiated to take care of themselves and not be a burden on society. Even someone who cannot work may be able to be beneficial as a story teller for the children of those who are working. We all need to feel benificial in order to truly live. Government social programs take away any initiative for people on government programs to better themselves. I myself just had a situation last year with this attitude from government. I was able to draw unemployment for a while due to the nature of my being let go from a previous employer. Shortly after being unemployed, I started working on reviving a consulting company I had shelved for some years. Even though I was only putting money into reviving that consulting company, and had not yet been able to benefit one nickel from income from that company, as soon as the Unemployment commission was made aware that I was trying to earn money for myself (I was the one who let them know what I was doing.), I was cut off from being eligible for unemployment benefits. The moment Americans try to help themselves, government punishes us by discontinuing any support from programs that we have involunteerily supported up until not having an income.

    People on welfare do not attempt to find jobs because if they do, they no longer receive any of the welfare benefits. If a person on welfare wants to better themselves by taking a part time job that could reduce the amount of welfare help they need from government, all government programs are denied. This makes it very difficult for welfare recipients to get off of welfare.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  2. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    Okay, where do they get the funding GA?

    I am not trying to be a PITA, I am okay if it is a private or government program,.. but the feds have the money.
    Who says the program has to be funded 100%?

    Ever consider some of these folks just might go back to work if they were faced with NO food, NO shelter, NO anything?
    And maybe the ones who are here illegally anyhow just might go home.

    Either way... the USA and US taxpayer wins.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  3. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by 54885488 View Post
    When was the last time in our history when there was enough jobs for everyone ? I dont believe that it is possible to do away with government help because are population is so large , jobs are scarce and a majority of americans are unwilling to let people and kids live in the street and go hungry . I also very much doubt that churches and non profits are the answer if they were they would have kept up with demand and we probally would have never had welfare programs but than again what do i know .
    A little known fact of the workplace: When un-employment goes below 4-5%... finding good help becomes VERY difficult. The reason is folks get the attitude they can be lazy and demand this or that benefit and get away with it. There needs to be that never-ending reality; if I do not do a good job... I get bumped by the next guy/gal that will do a good job. This fear of loss is the motivator to keep lazy folks working.

    Now some of us are motivated by ourselves... we are the leaders. The ones who are not... they are the followers. IMO the difference is whether one is lazy or not.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  4. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    If this is not being a socialist, then i must be an extreme socialist.

    I would not treat an animal this way, why would i want to treat a fellow human being this way, especially if it is within my societies power to assist.

    There are many ideas, that are managed badly (governance), that does not mean the idea itself is bad.
    Well... tell me this Barber:

    Why should i work if you will pay my way with your tax $$$'s?

    And the more folks who choose to not work (because you will pay our way)... the more your taxes go up.

    So what happens when the govt takes enough of your tax $$$'s your kids do not get to go to college... while their kids get to go to private schools, with armed guards at the door?

    How much of this socialism is enough?

    Bottom line: Folks have to work to live... take that away and our system no longer works.

    For that matter... why should you work if you can live free off the govt?
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  5. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    GA might have meant government subsidized non-profits. I don't care who administers the aid.
    No Tool, I did not.

    What I mean, read this carefully:

    NO...NADA, as in ZERO govt money (your tax $$$'s) goes to ANY handout programs without work to get paid associated with it.

    Regardless of how one looks at it... it is buying votes. This is the source of corruption in govt... the only way to get rid of it is to STOP it.

    Imagine how productive a society we could have if all that wasted govt beaurocy could be put back to work in the private sector....

    However I am beginning to think this thought process is above folks heads... OR

    They are more interested in promoting posting counts than arriving at a solution that would work....

    So which one is it?
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  6. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    What you are calling impossible ideal solutions is exactly what was working a lot better just a few decades ago before government developed a welfare industry.

    All governmental social programs need to be stopped! That is the first thing that needs to happen. Will some Americans who are fully dependent on government be inconvenienced during such a dramatic change? Of course they will. And the American people will rally to help those people, just as we have always been a benevelent people.

    The U.S. is still a heavily Christian nation. Jews, Muslims and most every theological organization we can think of all teach benevolence toward the needy. Yes, the needy will have to put up with being instructed in the glory of God in order to get the physical help they need....OH THE HORRORS!!!!

    Once we get the governmental social program monkey off of our backs, we can get back to being the lovingly benevolent people we once were before government programs hijacked our poor and needy for the benefit of using them for political purposes.

    Hundreds of billions of dollars of our money is wasted every year by government programs, just arguing over how they are going to spend our money. Most of our money goes to government workers, who are Americans being paid by the taxes confiscated by government which was earned by other Americans. It's one big scam, with welfare for the needy being sold as a commodity.

    Government social programs don't work! They never have! A very long history of government social programs from many societies that no longer exist are historical proof that government social programs don't work.

    Americans are some of the most giving peoples of the world. If we can just get government to work for the people instead of for the organized crime bosses and other special interest groups that government has been taken over by, we the people can get government and the welfare of our needy under much better control.
    Excellent post Robin...

    Tool, Boost, etc... you really need to read and understand this.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  7. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    You have a real misunderstanding of what a Socialist is. I believe in socialism at societal levels. When we refer to someone as being a Socialist, we are referring to those who believe that socialism belongs in government, with government being responsible for the social welfare of the citizens. That has never worked in the past, and cannot work for long term...ever.

    People need to be initiated to take care of themselves and not be a burden on society. Even someone who cannot work may be able to be beneficial as a story teller for the children of those who are working. We all need to feel benificial in order to truly live. Government social programs take away any initiative for people on government programs to better themselves. I myself just had a situation last year with this attitude from government. I was able to draw unemployment for a while due to the nature of my being let go from a previous employer. Shortly after being unemployed, I started working on reviving a consulting company I had shelved for some years. Even though I was only putting money into reviving that consulting company, and had not yet been able to benefit one nickel from income from that company, as soon as the Unemployment commission was made aware that I was trying to earn money for myself (I was the one who let them know what I was doing.), I was cut off from being eligible for unemployment benefits. The moment Americans try to help themselves, government punishes us by discontinuing any support from programs that we have involunteerily supported up until not having an income.

    People on welfare do not attempt to find jobs because if they do, they no longer receive any of the welfare benefits. If a person on welfare wants to better themselves by taking a part time job that could reduce the amount of welfare help they need from government, all government programs are denied. This makes it very difficult for welfare recipients to get off of welfare.
    If EVER in my life I have seen a carefully designed plan to BUY POWER... the welfare system has to be it.

    Making folks dependent on a govt that will take advantage of them... and making it clear as soon as they even think of breaking that dependency... cut off the $$$.

    WAKE UP VOTERS... Those of us who are not corrupted yet... are being USED. How long do we let this go on?
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  8. #99
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    I say we take away all entitlements from everyone. Lots of people will die and those that survive will steal your stuff to survive.

    Conservative dreaming again - "in a perfect world" it would work out just fine.

    Newsflash: Perfection has never been attained, most of the rational people understand this and deal with the real world.

  9. #100
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    There are lots of people who want to work that cannot work.

    There are those that have worked their whole life that cannot work any more.

    Then there are those that have never worked, will not work and their offspring will never work.

    The problem we have is separating the first 2 groups from the last group.

    Those that will not work need to be taken off government help so they will change

  10. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by netsalt View Post
    I say we take away all entitlements from everyone. Lots of people will die and those that survive will steal your stuff to survive.

    Conservative dreaming again - "in a perfect world" it would work out just fine.

    Newsflash: Perfection has never been attained, most of the rational people understand this and deal with the real world.
    Here goes that liberal side of me again....because I have more faith in Americans than to believe that they are either going to demand being given everything they need to survive, steal it or just lay down and die. I believe that Americans that are given the opportunity to better themselves legally, for the most part, will do so.

    Which of us really believes in humanity, salty? You, who have such a low regard for others, or me, who believes that given an opportunity to be responsible, most Americans will do so?
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  11. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by acmanko View Post
    There are lots of people who want to work that cannot work.

    There are those that have worked their whole life that cannot work any more.

    Then there are those that have never worked, will not work and their offspring will never work.

    The problem we have is separating the first 2 groups from the last group.

    Those that will not work need to be taken off government help so they will change
    I agree with all of this. I just don't believe that government is a solution for any of it. My belief is based on decades of governments failure to reduce the number of needy in our society while increasing the cost of welfare programs.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  12. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by acmanko View Post
    There are lots of people who want to work that cannot work.

    There are those that have worked their whole life that cannot work any more.

    Then there are those that have never worked, will not work and their offspring will never work.

    The problem we have is separating the first 2 groups from the last group.

    Those that will not work need to be taken off government help so they will change
    If you can remove the last group that would be a step in the right direction . Im sure we all know people and families that fall into the last group and maybe in our own families , the problem is that most working people would have no problem kicking the adults out of programs but stop at doing the same to children .

  13. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by 54885488 View Post
    If you can remove the last group that would be a step in the right direction . Im sure we all know people and families that fall into the last group and maybe in our own families , the problem is that most working people would have no problem kicking the adults out of programs but stop at doing the same to children .
    Actually, there is one more group:

    Folks who will work just enough to claim they are trying... yet INTENTIONALLY apply for every form of assistance they can get; both govt and private. These are the ones who have learned how to work the system... and they have literally NO shame.

    Now I have a question:

    Between supposedly greedy corp types... and this group of welfare cheats... which is more greedy?

    IMO if we are being honest with ourselves... the answer is not what the media would want you to think.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

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