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Thread: Fiscal cliff

  1. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    It's just too hard to sort out the chaff at a government agency level. You cannot assume everyone in need is just lazy. Persons who need a warm meal and a safe place to sleep can from any category. They could be a lazy drug dealer or a recently released felon. Or they could be some clueless 19 year old kid with a busted radiator on his truck and no family/friend support, or a widowed home-maker with three kids, or a penniless tornado victim with nothing but clothes on his back...

    If someone needs a meal and a safe place to sleep, fine. I don't want to pay their rent though for a nicer place than I live.
    THIS is the reason government should NOT be handling charity... rather local non-profits.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  2. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    I've already explained that the money that government confiscates from us to run government programs that don't work is money that will be back in the hands of the people....that's where the money has always come from.

    No, we cannot afford to continue to provide the money to government that has proven they cannot do the job efficiently, even by spending five times the amount of our taxes in order to fail. We need to reduce government and get benevelent social programs back in the hands of the people.
    Robo and GA, I understand what you are saying and am not disagreeing on a theoretic level. But we are spending tons of $$$ on the poor. It is not politically practical to think we usurp that funding and leave it up to local churches and charities to take up the slack. Even if they could, it would never happen as a legislative matter.

    We need to look at potential practical solutions, not impossible ideal solutions.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

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  3. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by 54885488 View Post
    I can see where acmanko is coming from lets say your tax rate is 30 percent and and the government lowers your tax rate to 20 percent with the intent that more money in your pocket equals maybe you higher another employee, that is being on the government dole . You will no doubt disagree with this but that is what i think he means . How can one be on the governments dole if it's my/our money they are doling out? Those tax dollars belong to us and they work for us. Now before you call me a leftist or something let me say that i would prefer a flat progressive tax based solely on earnings with no accounting for wether your married,have children, own a home or what have you . The other thing is everybody pays something no more getting back more than you pay in .
    Officially, Down for the count

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  4. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    I've already explained that the money that government confiscates from us to run government programs that don't work is money that will be back in the hands of the people....that's where the money has always come from.

    No, we cannot afford to continue to provide the money to government that has proven they cannot do the job efficiently, even by spending five times the amount of our taxes in order to fail. We need to reduce government and get benevelent social programs back in the hands of the people.
    In addition cut their(legislators) salaries and pensions on both a local and federal level to a median income wage . AND the ONLY lobbiest group should be the constituents.
    Officially, Down for the count

    YOU HAVE TO GET OFF YOUR ASS TO GET ON YOUR FEET

    I know enough to know, I don't know enough
    Liberalism-Ideas so good they mandate them

  5. #83
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    I probably am gonna start a firestorm with this comment... however it will not be the first or last time...

    One does not skip N2 flow or pulling a vacuum just because nobody else does... or cause it is too expensive......................................... ...

    When will we learn there is a RIGHT way to run a society... until we go there... we are just digging a grave.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  6. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    I probably am gonna start a firestorm with this comment... however it will not be the first or last time...

    One does not skip N2 flow or pulling a vacuum just because nobody else does... or cause it is too expensive......................................... ...

    When will we learn there is a RIGHT way to run a society... until we go there... we are just digging a grave.
    There is a difference between working for the good of the common man and getting a gubmint job because I will be set for the rest of my life
    Officially, Down for the count

    YOU HAVE TO GET OFF YOUR ASS TO GET ON YOUR FEET

    I know enough to know, I don't know enough
    Liberalism-Ideas so good they mandate them

  7. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    THIS is the reason government should NOT be handling charity... rather local non-profits.
    Okay, where do they get the funding GA?

    I am not trying to be a PITA, I am okay if it is a private or government program,.. but the feds have the money.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

  8. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Problem is... no polecat can resist buying those votes.

    IMO the only solution is to let them feel the results of their choices (starve in the cold/hot) until they go to work.
    When was the last time in our history when there was enough jobs for everyone ? I dont believe that it is possible to do away with government help because are population is so large , jobs are scarce and a majority of americans are unwilling to let people and kids live in the street and go hungry . I also very much doubt that churches and non profits are the answer if they were they would have kept up with demand and we probally would have never had welfare programs but than again what do i know .

  9. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Problem is... no polecat can resist buying those votes.

    IMO the only solution is to let them feel the results of their choices (starve in the cold/hot) until they go to work.
    If this is not being a socialist, then i must be an extreme socialist.

    I would not treat an animal this way, why would i want to treat a fellow human being this way, especially if it is within my societies power to assist.

    There are many ideas, that are managed badly (governance), that does not mean the idea itself is bad.

  10. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by 54885488 View Post
    When was the last time in our history when there was enough jobs for everyone ? I dont believe that it is possible to do away with government help because are population is so large , jobs are scarce and a majority of americans are unwilling to let people and kids live in the street and go hungry . I also very much doubt that churches and non profits are the answer if they were they would have kept up with demand and we probally would have never had welfare programs but than again what do i know .
    GA might have meant government subsidized non-profits. I don't care who administers the aid.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

  11. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    Robo and GA, I understand what you are saying and am not disagreeing on a theoretic level. But we are spending tons of $$$ on the poor. It is not politically practical to think we usurp that funding and leave it up to local churches and charities to take up the slack. Even if they could, it would never happen as a legislative matter.

    We need to look at potential practical solutions, not impossible ideal solutions.
    What you are calling impossible ideal solutions is exactly what was working a lot better just a few decades ago before government developed a welfare industry.

    All governmental social programs need to be stopped! That is the first thing that needs to happen. Will some Americans who are fully dependent on government be inconvenienced during such a dramatic change? Of course they will. And the American people will rally to help those people, just as we have always been a benevelent people.

    The U.S. is still a heavily Christian nation. Jews, Muslims and most every theological organization we can think of all teach benevolence toward the needy. Yes, the needy will have to put up with being instructed in the glory of God in order to get the physical help they need....OH THE HORRORS!!!!

    Once we get the governmental social program monkey off of our backs, we can get back to being the lovingly benevolent people we once were before government programs hijacked our poor and needy for the benefit of using them for political purposes.

    Hundreds of billions of dollars of our money is wasted every year by government programs, just arguing over how they are going to spend our money. Most of our money goes to government workers, who are Americans being paid by the taxes confiscated by government which was earned by other Americans. It's one big scam, with welfare for the needy being sold as a commodity.

    Government social programs don't work! They never have! A very long history of government social programs from many societies that no longer exist are historical proof that government social programs don't work.

    Americans are some of the most giving peoples of the world. If we can just get government to work for the people instead of for the organized crime bosses and other special interest groups that government has been taken over by, we the people can get government and the welfare of our needy under much better control.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  12. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2sac View Post
    In addition cut their(legislators) salaries and pensions on both a local and federal level to a median income wage . AND the ONLY lobbiest group should be the constituents.
    This is the part that gets difficult. We need legislators to cut their own flow of tax money in order for legislators to do what is right for the people, with the people's money. When 9% of voters say they are satisfied with what their legislators are doing vote back into office 80% of those same legislators, we better be looking at who it is we keep getting running for these offices.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  13. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by 54885488 View Post
    When was the last time in our history when there was enough jobs for everyone ? I dont believe that it is possible to do away with government help because are population is so large , jobs are scarce and a majority of americans are unwilling to let people and kids live in the street and go hungry . I also very much doubt that churches and non profits are the answer if they were they would have kept up with demand and we probally would have never had welfare programs but than again what do i know .
    A famous man is quoted as having said; "There will be poor always." I think we can all agree with that man. Unfortunately, as soon as politicians realized they could use the poor in order to gain power in government, these suppossedly well meaning folks in government just created more poor.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


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