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Thread: Fiscal cliff

  1. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by acmanko View Post
    all these small business owners crying cause their tax cuts(government dole) are shrinking is really quite comical
    Just how on Earth is a tax cut part of a government dole? Having tax money given to us is government doleing out that which belongs to others. Not having taxes taken from us in the first place is not being on the government dole.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  2. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    Thought in the line of Tool's concept a number of years ago. Might have to be a bit more than just a warehouse. First off you need some kind of security for the people there. If they are not safe there is little point in them being there. Say a woman realizes that she has to get herself and her kids away from her husband/boyfriend. What is keeping the guy from showing up and causing trouble? Gangs know kids in shelters are ripe pickings as recruits. Not to mention the clientele that have mental or addiction problems and can be a danger to others.

    The low cost nature of the solution is enticing, but it might not be a bad thing to combine health and a training aspect to it. Not as a prerequisite of using the service but rather giving people there a way of getting out of their situation. The problem with many people that are lost is they do not know how to get out of the situation they are in. Health problems can run rampant in the people in refugee camp kind of conditions. Will there be the option of washing your clothes? Will there be a place to store your stuff that you can walk away from while you tend to business?

    Details need to be worked out but not a bad idea.
    These types of shelters are run quite well through private agencies throughout the country, so there is a precident that it can be done more effectively than anything that government facilities do.

    From a financial standpoint, if we get social issues out of the hands of government, there will be less waste of taxpayer monies so that less taxes will be needed to be confiscated from us. With more money in the hands of the people, homeless shelters will be better supported by those who willingly give of what they have. As it is, too many Americans who would normally be supporting privately operated shelters are able to justify doing nothing by saying; "Government takes care of that..."
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  3. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Just how on Earth is a tax cut part of a government dole? Having tax money given to us is government doleing out that which belongs to others. Not having taxes taken from us in the first place is not being on the government dole.
    I can see where acmanko is coming from lets say your tax rate is 30 percent and and the government lowers your tax rate to 20 percent with the intent that more money in your pocket equals maybe you higher another employee, that is being on the government dole . You will no doubt disagree with this but that is what i think he means . Now before you call me a leftist or something let me say that i would prefer a flat progressive tax based solely on earnings with no accounting for wether your married,have children, own a home or what have you . The other thing is everybody pays something no more getting back more than you pay in .

  4. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    These types of shelters are run quite well through private agencies throughout the country, so there is a precident that it can be done more effectively than anything that government facilities do.

    From a financial standpoint, if we get social issues out of the hands of government, there will be less waste of taxpayer monies so that less taxes will be needed to be confiscated from us. With more money in the hands of the people, homeless shelters will be better supported by those who willingly give of what they have. As it is, too many Americans who would normally be supporting privately operated shelters are able to justify doing nothing by saying; "Government takes care of that..."
    But where is the money going to come from?




    Women and children who are victims of domestic violence could be turned away from Winnipeg's largest shelter within days.

    The city has rejected a request from Osborne House for $450,000.

    Executive director Barbara Judt says the shelter can't carry on without the funding.

    "I've had people ask, 'will you cut more staff?' I can't cut more staff because we're working on a bare bones schedule as it is," she said.

    "If I don't have the resources in place to provide for these clients, and the city doesn't want to offer any support on that, what else can I do?"
    http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/our...ties/souwester
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  5. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by 54885488 View Post
    I can see where acmanko is coming from lets say your tax rate is 30 percent and and the government lowers your tax rate to 20 percent with the intent that more money in your pocket equals maybe you higher another employee, that is being on the government dole . You will no doubt disagree with this but that is what i think he means . Now before you call me a leftist or something let me say that i would prefer a flat progressive tax based solely on earnings with no accounting for wether your married,have children, own a home or what have you . The other thing is everybody pays something no more getting back more than you pay in .
    If one person is paying less tax than another person the one paying more is subsidizing the system whether the other person does something with their money or not.
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  6. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    Thought in the line of Tool's concept a number of years ago. Might have to be a bit more than just a warehouse. First off you need some kind of security for the people there. If they are not safe there is little point in them being there. Say a woman realizes that she has to get herself and her kids away from her husband/boyfriend. What is keeping the guy from showing up and causing trouble? Gangs know kids in shelters are ripe pickings as recruits. Not to mention the clientele that have mental or addiction problems and can be a danger to others.

    The low cost nature of the solution is enticing, but it might not be a bad thing to combine health and a training aspect to it. Not as a prerequisite of using the service but rather giving people there a way of getting out of their situation. The problem with many people that are lost is they do not know how to get out of the situation they are in. Health problems can run rampant in the people in refugee camp kind of conditions. Will there be the option of washing your clothes? Will there be a place to store your stuff that you can walk away from while you tend to business?

    Details need to be worked out but not a bad idea.
    Given the clientele, there would have to be police there 24/7. Some folks would basically be living there because of whatever variety of problems they have. There would need to be separation of the single men/women with kids/ women without and so on. You are correct it would be a little more than simply a warehouse. Since they would be living there, even if only temporary, they must have shower and laundry facility. I had not thought about lockers, but yes they would be required. Payphones.

    To help them get out of the situation, those that can, there would have to be a public transportation route available. This would be an excellent location for, or within easy walking distance: daycare, day-labor center, employment office extension, drug rehab center, KOO-KOO hatch, and a county jail. Basically, the types of government services so many of them would be well acquainted with.

    Certainly is not my intention to just throw people in a box and cut off all services,... But I do think we should stop paying their rent, utilities, cell-phone service, and then giving them those idiotic food-stamps which may be the most abused public charity in the entire history of the earth.

    Side note Printer: In the US we have 'battered women shelters' that care of women with abusive relationship problems. That is a special situation, I would not suggest shutting those down, but as a separate facility might be operated in more or less the same way.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

  7. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    But where is the money going to come from?






    http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/our...ties/souwester
    There would be a massive fortune saved in rent subsidies, food subsidies saving would also be massive. The money is already there, it is just just needs to be re-allocated. The savings would be incredible. Fraud and abuse cut to a fraction of our current system[s]. Plural because some of this is state based rather than federal programs.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

  8. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    I say let them live in a warehouse if they want. Free soup, no other help. Most of them will get the message.
    Problem is... no polecat can resist buying those votes.

    IMO the only solution is to let them feel the results of their choices (starve in the cold/hot) until they go to work.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  9. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Just how on Earth is a tax cut part of a government dole? Having tax money given to us is government doleing out that which belongs to others. Not having taxes taken from us in the first place is not being on the government dole.
    The first thing we need to understand is: The $$$ is not the govt's to begin with... it is ours. When we realize this (again)... we will TELL the govt how they will and will not spend it. If they do not listen... then replace them.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  10. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Problem is... no polecat can resist buying those votes.

    IMO the only solution is to let them feel the results of their choices (starve in the cold/hot) until they go to work.
    It's just too hard to sort out the chaff at a government agency level. You cannot assume everyone in need is just lazy. Persons who need a warm meal and a safe place to sleep can from any category. They could be a lazy drug dealer or a recently released felon. Or they could be some clueless 19 year old kid with a busted radiator on his truck and no family/friend support, or a widowed home-maker with three kids, or a penniless tornado victim with nothing but clothes on his back...

    If someone needs a meal and a safe place to sleep, fine. I don't want to pay their rent though for a nicer place than I live.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

  11. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by 54885488 View Post
    I can see where acmanko is coming from lets say your tax rate is 30 percent and and the government lowers your tax rate to 20 percent with the intent that more money in your pocket equals maybe you higher another employee, that is being on the government dole . You will no doubt disagree with this but that is what i think he means . Now before you call me a leftist or something let me say that i would prefer a flat progressive tax based solely on earnings with no accounting for wether your married,have children, own a home or what have you . The other thing is everybody pays something no more getting back more than you pay in .
    Of course I disagree with what you stating...it's wrong minded.

    Read my sig line. Your left handed approach to taxation is exactly what my sig line refers to. Not taxing small businesses for taxes that should never have been imposed in the first place is not governments doing small businesses any favors, just taking credit for that which they were the initial antagonists of.

    What government does with taxation is the same as what organized crime does with extortion. Do you think we should consider organized crime to be benevelent because they don't kill those who pay them to not kill them?
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  12. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    But where is the money going to come from?
    I've already explained that the money that government confiscates from us to run government programs that don't work is money that will be back in the hands of the people....that's where the money has always come from.

    No, we cannot afford to continue to provide the money to government that has proven they cannot do the job efficiently, even by spending five times the amount of our taxes in order to fail. We need to reduce government and get benevelent social programs back in the hands of the people.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  13. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    If one person is paying less tax than another person the one paying more is subsidizing the system whether the other person does something with their money or not.
    A true Socialist view of government. When taxes are paid by all to benefit all, then your statement would be accurate. But as long as taxes are paid by those who work to provide for their families and given to those who refuse to work but still provides for them and their families, there is something fundamentally wrong with the system.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


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