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Thread: Fiscal cliff

  1. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Barbar, you will never be able to understand the American mindset, whether liberal, conservative or anywhere in between. You live in an island nation with no where near the geographical, cultural or economic variances that we have in the U.S. What works for a small island nation is not necessarily even close to being good for a country such as the U.S.

    I'll grant you, there is quite a diversity in the New Zealand geography and climate from one area to another, especially for such a small amount of landmass. Still, as countries go, New Zealand is more like a theme park version of what the U.S. is. And not to be too petty, but your national bird can't even fly....


    OOOOOOOOO... tacky there...

    I remember an airline named that KiwiAir... they were a collection of folks who were laid off when two large airlines in the USA merged. They were mostly lazy and not motivated... the airline lasted a few mos and went bankrupt.

    I think Robin has a point here... there is this thing called the economy of scale. It works well when one ramps up manufacturing... however as an organization grows it gets less efficient. Thus when a small and VERY efficient upstart comes along with a better mouse-trap... they literally take the market away from the old giant.

    Witness mighty Xerox... the literal KING of copying machines... they are almost extinct now that desktop multi-function printers are available.

    Life goes on... and the idea of bigger is better... well that is old and not-so-true news now-a-days.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  2. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    Taxation is a fact of life, regardless, or not, the distribution will always be left to the few. "Managers"

    How can any tax benefit (USA or any other country) benefit all, all of the time. It can not.

    Do you give blood, is so why? Do help others and just in case other will help you if you need blood. If you are lucky enough that you never need blood, then it could be deemed hard done to, tax is no different, its an organised social net.
    Disagree!

    A country needs to be governed... our founders realized this. They also realized (quite smarter than most today) that ALL governments, by design, breed corruption. The founders tried as best they could to arrange the power for the citizens to keep govt under control... yet in our lazyness and greed the citizens have allowed govt to get too much power.

    IMO only someone who has experienced true freedom... understands it. The rest think an overhanging 'big-brother' is necessary... which it is NOT.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  3. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Barbar, you will never be able to understand the American mindset, whether liberal, conservative or anywhere in between. You live in an island nation with no where near the geographical, cultural or economic variances that we have in the U.S. What works for a small island nation is not necessarily even close to being good for a country such as the U.S.

    I'll grant you, there is quite a diversity in the New Zealand geography and climate from one area to another, especially for such a small amount of landmass. Still, as countries go, New Zealand is more like a theme park version of what the U.S. is. And not to be too petty, but your national bird can't even fly....
    It is clear, that i do not understand the mindset of some Americans, but the mind you are talking about does seem to be in the minority.
    I live in NZ by choice, but that does not limit my experience, my basic wealth, was made in a another small island nation, the UK (very high population density and was a world manufacturing power house). This was during the turmoil of over bearing left and right wingers.

    Fundamental economic principle do not change, there will always be a tiered structure of those who have more and those who have less.
    One has to gauge what one wants from his/her society, if money is the only measure of success, than so be it, I would rather have less, knowing that society is safer.

    i am some one who is in many eyes is highly immoral, of which i am if the needs be, If it were not for social welfare programs, then who knows what i would have done to survive.

  4. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    OOOOOOOOO... tacky there...

    I remember an airline named that KiwiAir... they were a collection of folks who were laid off when two large airlines in the USA merged. They were mostly lazy and not motivated... the airline lasted a few mos and went bankrupt.

    I think Robin has a point here... there is this thing called the economy of scale. It works well when one ramps up manufacturing... however as an organization grows it gets less efficient. Thus when a small and VERY efficient upstart comes along with a better mouse-trap... they literally take the market away from the old giant.

    Witness mighty Xerox... the literal KING of copying machines... they are almost extinct now that desktop multi-function printers are available.

    Life goes on... and the idea of bigger is better... well that is old and not-so-true news now-a-days.
    My shoulders are big enough to take a side swipe. But Robo, does know his feather birds,

    If you require the same rules for all americans, then a national organisation has to be control.

    I believe in social welfare "not unlimited", but I think you are not understanding my point on management, I am sort of agreeing with you that your govt, is to divorced from its population and you from them.

  5. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    My shoulders are big enough to take a side swipe. But Robo, does know his feather birds,

    If you require the same rules for all americans, then a national organisation has to be control.

    I believe in social welfare "not unlimited", but I think you are not understanding my point on management, I am sort of agreeing with you that your govt, is to divorced from its population and you from them.
    Perhaps you and I are saying similar things from a different perspective.

    IMO the founders realized govts would always become corrupt... it is just human nature. So they tried to limit the growth of govt by arranging lots of power, along with safeguards, at the citizen level.

    I seem to remember a story that goes kinda like this:
    Ben Franklin came out for a smoke break from meeting with the other founders... and a lady asked him what kind of government they were making.
    Ben responded: I give you a Republic mam, that is if you can keep it.
    The point wise old Ben was making was: Citizens tend to loose control of their govt... unless they purpose to not do so.

    Seems another of the founders said: The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

    Both seem to go together.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  6. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    Taxation is a fact of life, regardless, or not, the distribution will always be left to the few. "Managers"

    How can any tax benefit (USA or any other country) benefit all, all of the time. It can not.

    Do you give blood, is so why? Do help others and just in case other will help you if you need blood. If you are lucky enough that you never need blood, then it could be deemed hard done to, tax is no different, its an organised social net.
    I give blood willingly to a private organization and unwillingly to government. Federal government, what we are actually discussing here, is to use collected taxes for national highways and other nationally used infrastructure, keeping our monetary system stable and keeping a ready military to keep us safe from foreign invasion. Federal government in the U.S. was never intended for social welfare programs. You don't know what you are talking about when it comes to U.S. government and it's intended purpose.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  7. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    My shoulders are big enough to take a side swipe. But Robo, does know his feather birds,

    If you require the same rules for all americans, then a national organisation has to be control.

    I believe in social welfare "not unlimited", but I think you are not understanding my point on management, I am sort of agreeing with you that your govt, is to divorced from its population and you from them.
    When you have a country as diverse as the U.S., it is not practical for all Americans to be under the same rules. We have had instances of people on welfare in Hawaii getting money for heating during the winter because the feds decided that all Americans on welfare needed help staying warm.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  8. #125
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    So, now that the supposed end of times has passed, we now find out it was all a sham. Seems that government leaders can back date whatever they do, or don't do, and say it happened on January 1st. What a crock of crap our government and media is.

    All of this drama to keep Americans in a constant state of fear is going to bite these fascist asses in the butt when we start storming government buildings and turning them into condos.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  9. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    I give blood willingly to a private organization and unwillingly to government. Federal government, what we are actually discussing here, is to use collected taxes for national highways and other nationally used infrastructure, keeping our monetary system stable and keeping a ready military to keep us safe from foreign invasion. Federal government in the U.S. was never intended for social welfare programs. You don't know what you are talking about when it comes to U.S. government and it's intended purpose.
    It may well be not in intended , but it IS. I work on today and tomorrow, can not change yesterday. So best concentrate on changing the "IS" and that is the only way of getting to your intended!

  10. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    When you have a country as diverse as the U.S., it is not practical for all Americans to be under the same rules. We have had instances of people on welfare in Hawaii getting money for heating during the winter because the feds decided that all Americans on welfare needed help staying warm.
    Was not you who stated, benefit all americans, well there you have it, or do the take the practical approach of swings and roundabouts. where pool gives where it required. Just because the idea is badly managed (your main beef), that does not mean the idea is bad.

  11. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    I give blood willingly to a private organization and unwillingly to government. Federal government, what we are actually discussing here, is to use collected taxes for national highways and other nationally used infrastructure, keeping our monetary system stable and keeping a ready military to keep us safe from foreign invasion. Federal government in the U.S. was never intended for social welfare programs. You don't know what you are talking about when it comes to U.S. government and it's intended purpose.
    Apology, I forgot that giving blood in the US is also a financial transaction (so a bad example)

  12. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    It may well be not in intended , but it IS. I work on today and tomorrow, can not change yesterday. So best concentrate on changing the "IS" and that is the only way of getting to your intended!
    In the U.S., a past president has informed us that things depend on what the definition of "IS", is...
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  13. #130
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    A public jack-off to go through the motions of a solution when in actuality both sides are just desperately trying to preserve the looter system. They all know where the economy is heading.
    America; first we fight for our freedom,
    then we make laws to take it away.

    -Alfred E Newman

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