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  1. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    Read John Lott.

    More Guns, Less Crime.

    It's enlightening.
    That is the book to which I believe gahvactech was referring.

    Lotts book has multiple methodological problems and certain realities that cast doubt on his contention that more guns equals less crime.

    1. Crime in general was declining before CW laws were in place

    2. States in which concealed weapons bans are in place saw crime decreases

    3.The National Research Council of the National Academies found several methodological problems in Lott's work and stated that "that with the current evidence it is not possible to determine if there is a causal link between right to carry laws and crime rates."

    4.The Harvard Injury Control Research Center reviewed a massive quanity of scientific research (including Lott's work) and has concluded that "concealed carry laws have been neither beneficial nor detrimental."

    5. The most scientifically accurate statement that can be supported by the evidence is that concealed carry laws have had little if any influence on crime.

  2. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by geerair View Post
    That is the book to which I believe gahvactech was referring.

    Lotts book has multiple methodological problems and certain realities that cast doubt on his contention that more guns equals less crime.

    1. Crime in general was declining before CW laws were in place

    2. States in which concealed weapons bans are in place saw crime decreases

    3.The National Research Council of the National Academies found several methodological problems in Lott's work and stated that "that with the current evidence it is not possible to determine if there is a causal link between right to carry laws and crime rates."

    4.The Harvard Injury Control Research Center reviewed a massive quanity of scientific research (including Lott's work) and has concluded that "concealed carry laws have been neither beneficial nor detrimental."

    5. The most scientifically accurate statement that can be supported by the evidence is that concealed carry laws have had little if any influence on crime.
    this is true, all this happened while gun sales are soaring. Hand gun permits have skyrocketed and crime has gone down.
    "Arguing with liberals...it's like playing chess with a pigeon; no matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over the pieces, crap on the board and strut around like it's victorious." -- Anonymous

  3. #107
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    lets look at a few varifiable facts that even people from other countries can check (although I doubt they will because it will destroy their belief system)

    FACT: A Gallup survey confirms that 73% of Americans believe the 2nd Amendment “guarantees” the right to keep guns, and that a mere 20% believe it exists to enable state militias.
    Public Believes Americans Have Right to Own Guns, Gallup Poll, May 27, 2008.

    Fact: A Zogby poll423 concluded that 75% of Americans believe the right to keep and bear arms is an individual right. ABC determined the rate to be 77%.
    SAF survey of 1,015 likely voters, Zogby, June 2002.

    JOHN ADAMS, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
    “Resistance to sudden violence, for the preservation not only of my person, my limbs, and life, but of my property, is an indisputable right of nature which I have never surrendered to the public by the compact of society, and which perhaps, I could not surrender if I would.”483
    “Here, every private person is authorized to arm himself, and on the strength of this authority, I do not deny the inhabitants had a right to arm themselves at that time, for their defense, not for offense.”
    THE DALAI LAMA
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
    MAHATMA GANDHI, PEACEFUL REVOLUTIONARY
    “Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest.”
    JOHN F. KENNEDY, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
    “Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.“
    “By calling attention to 'a well regulated militia,' the 'security' of the nation, and the right of each citizen 'to keep and bear arms,' our founding fathers recognized the essentially civilian nature of our economy. Although it is extremely unlikely that the fears of governmental tyranny, which gave rise to the Second Amendment, will ever be a major danger to our nation, the Amendment still remains an important declaration of our basic civilian-military relationships, in which every citizen must be ready to participate in the defense of his country. For that reason I believe the Second Amendment will always be important.”
    "Arguing with liberals...it's like playing chess with a pigeon; no matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over the pieces, crap on the board and strut around like it's victorious." -- Anonymous

  4. #108
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    Fact: In 1976, Washington, D.C. enacted one of the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation. The city's murder rate rose 134 percent through 1996 while the national murder rate has dropped 2 percent.
    Dr. Gary Kleck, University of Florida using FBI Uniform Crime Statistics, 1997

    Fact: Maryland claims to have the toughest gun control laws in the nation and ranks #1 in robberies and #4 in both violent crime and murder .
    Index of Crime by State, FBI Uniform Crime Reports (UCR) for 2000, p. 79, Table 5
    The robbery rate is 70% more than the national average. These numbers are likely low because one of their more violent cities, Baltimore, failed to report their crime levels.
    FBI Uniform Crime Reports, September 15, 2000


    it seems the Second Amendment is a vital part of America's culture. It's existence is unchallenged, except in other countries that don't understand America.
    And thats fine, but don't come here (or a forum) and try to convince a whole society that "their way" is better. Or to impose their views on us.
    "Arguing with liberals...it's like playing chess with a pigeon; no matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over the pieces, crap on the board and strut around like it's victorious." -- Anonymous

  5. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    My friend, you have insulted the intelligence and professionality of the founders of America... personally I resent that.
    GA my friend, at this point I must ask you to re-read, the statement I made as a whole. Also taking into context with the discussion I was having with tool.
    Based upon your comment, and for discussion purposes only (no insult intended) This was the first words, I hoped that this would cover any any possible offence.
    Thanks
    Barbar

  6. #110
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    The 2nd amendment is an outdated sentiment of a by gone era and just plain wrong.

    There should be a 3 month amnesty in which everyone should be required to give up all arms to the local police station - all licences should be revoked.

    New licences should then only be given to gun clubs where the guns are not allowed to leave the premises - and are kept locked away.,

    Otherwise you are just going to have more and more deaths each year.

  7. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Why should it matter to anyone else how carrying a gun makes an individual who chooses to carry a gun feel? Is this some sort of psych test?

    Maybe some who carry guns do feel good because they are carrying a gun, I can't speak for others. When I carry, the most difference in my "feelings" is that I feel more responsible.

    But mostly, how others "feel" about anything is really none of anyone else's business unless those feelings are desired to be expressed by those experiencing them. Why not ask how someone "feels" when they are beating someone to death because that person attempted to harm or kill the person who is now doing the beating?
    Taken slightly out of context, as the statement was an attempt a bit of humour hence the LOL at the end

    But I will bite.

    If owning a gun, increases security and you know that you are able to repel, then surely who must "feel better"

  8. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by martinxxxxxx View Post
    The 2nd amendment is an outdated sentiment of a by gone era and just plain wrong.

    There should be a 3 month amnesty in which everyone should be required to give up all arms to the local police station - all licences should be revoked.

    New licences should then only be given to gun clubs where the guns are not allowed to leave the premises - and are kept locked away.,

    Otherwise you are just going to have more and more deaths each year.


    That's just an opinion and one you are welcome to. However, you provided nothing beyond an opinion. Therefore, it is pretty much of no actual value. We all have opinions. So what!

    Others here have posted facts and figures.

  9. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by martinxxxxxx View Post
    The 2nd amendment is an outdated sentiment of a by gone era and just plain wrong.

    There should be a 3 month amnesty in which everyone should be required to give up all arms to the local police station - all licences should be revoked.

    New licences should then only be given to gun clubs where the guns are not allowed to leave the premises - and are kept locked away.,

    Otherwise you are just going to have more and more deaths each year.
    Seems i remember the idea of seriously strict gun laws did not do much for your crime issues... actually crime went UP.

    Now do not cite govt stats... as we know you guys do your stats differently than we do. Have to compare apples to apples...
    GA-HVAC-Tech

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  10. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post
    this is true, all this happened while gun sales are soaring. Hand gun permits have skyrocketed and crime has gone down.
    Now if you could just find some compellong evidence to support this claim you might have something.

    Correlation is not causation.

  11. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Seems i remember the idea of seriously strict gun laws did not do much for your crime issues... actually crime went UP.

    Now do not cite govt stats... as we know you guys do your stats differently than we do. Have to compare apples to apples...
    Stacking the deck eh?

  12. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post
    Fact: In 1976, Washington, D.C. enacted one of the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation. The city's murder rate rose 134 percent through 1996 while the national murder rate has dropped 2 percent.
    Dr. Gary Kleck, University of Florida using FBI Uniform Crime Statistics, 1997

    Fact: Maryland claims to have the toughest gun control laws in the nation and ranks #1 in robberies and #4 in both violent crime and murder .
    Index of Crime by State, FBI Uniform Crime Reports (UCR) for 2000, p. 79, Table 5
    The robbery rate is 70% more than the national average. These numbers are likely low because one of their more violent cities, Baltimore, failed to report their crime levels.
    FBI Uniform Crime Reports, September 15, 2000


    it seems the Second Amendment is a vital part of America's culture. It's existence is unchallenged, except in other countries that don't understand America.
    And thats fine, but don't come here (or a forum) and try to convince a whole society that "their way" is better. Or to impose their views on us.
    Again, correlation is not causation.

  13. #117
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    Apr 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by geerair View Post
    Again, correlation is not causation.
    Your stating so does not make your claim true either.

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