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  1. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    I agree, although from previous conversations, probably from a different viewpoint.

    We are indeed a social species of animal. Some differences between humans and other species of animals are our egos and our ability to make rational decisions regardless of environmental stimuli. This is what allows most of us to have faith that there is a supreme Creator of the Universe, whom we may learn proper behaviour from and benefit from in life. Our first step toward being able to have faith in ourselves is to be able to have faith in that which we refer to as "God".

    For those who deny God, they must find a substitution for God or declare themselves to be like that which those of faith refer to as God. In other words, to deny God is to feel godlike. Since only a few who deny God can believe in themselves without some other guideance, most who deny God must look for another benevolent source to believe in. This is where those who determine themselves to be godlike are able to develope governments that replace God for those whose faith is too weak to be able to believe beyond what they can see, hear, smell, taste or touch.

    Since God is within ourselves, to deny God is to deny ourselves. Without being part of government, most who believe in government as the benevolent source of well being have no way of having faith in themselves. Those with a lack of faith in God and themselves must rely solely and completely on their belief in government, which in truth is just other humans acting godlike. Man becomes reliant on other men who have no interest in the self worth of anyone but themselves.

    So, either we have worth by having faith in ourselves through our belief in a supreme Creator of mankind, or we give up our self worth and rely on those who have so much self worth that they believe themselves to be godlike enough to govern the rest of us through governements. That's pretty much how it stacks up.
    I almost went down this track, ( but i did not want the "god does or does not exist argument")

    So leaving the question alone, I think we can agree than man himself is not perfect, and understanding that we require some form of order, this leaves us to, either we accept man failures, or as stated look for god like institution or have the requirement to meet perfection through a supreme being like a god.

  2. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by syndicated View Post
    I've asked these questions twice now on here, perhaps you'll do better to secure an answer.
    When the SHTF leaders emerge naturally. Networks are established. Means of conflict are decided in a fluid form depending upon the situation.

    Look at Afgan, Iraq, Syria, and Libya. The militia is extremely powerful. If they have popular support of 'the people' they are pretty much going to win every time.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

  3. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    BINGO!


    Anyone else notice that many of these shooters were described as being 'geniuses'?
    I thought this last guy shooting up the kids was autistic. Autism does not exactly equate to genius, just that there is a potential for an autistic to be intelligent, but still not responsible or socially acceptable.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  4. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    I almost went down this track, ( but i did not want the "god does or does not exist argument")

    So leaving the question alone, I think we can agree than man himself is not perfect, and understanding that we require some form of order, this leaves us to, either we accept man failures, or as stated look for god like institution or have the requirement to meet perfection through a supreme being like a god.
    That's as good as anything we could agree on. Since a lot of it has to do strictly with what we have faith in or not, it really is all conjecture waiting to be proved out by actions. How's it working with our century of going down the Socialist path?
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  5. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    I agree, although from previous conversations, probably from a different viewpoint.

    We are indeed a social species of animal. Some differences between humans and other species of animals are our egos and our ability to make rational decisions regardless of environmental stimuli. This is what allows most of us to have faith that there is a supreme Creator of the Universe, whom we may learn proper behaviour from and benefit from in life. Our first step toward being able to have faith in ourselves is to be able to have faith in that which we refer to as "God".

    For those who deny God, they must find a substitution for God or declare themselves to be like that which those of faith refer to as God. In other words, to deny God is to feel godlike. Since only a few who deny God can believe in themselves without some other guideance, most who deny God must look for another benevolent source to believe in. This is where those who determine themselves to be godlike are able to develope governments that replace God for those whose faith is too weak to be able to believe beyond what they can see, hear, smell, taste or touch.

    Since God is within ourselves, to deny God is to deny ourselves. Without being part of government, most who believe in government as the benevolent source of well being have no way of having faith in themselves. Those with a lack of faith in God and themselves must rely solely and completely on their belief in government, which in truth is just other humans acting godlike. Man becomes reliant on other men who have no interest in the self worth of anyone but themselves.

    So, either we have worth by having faith in ourselves through our belief in a supreme Creator of mankind, or we give up our self worth and rely on those who have so much self worth that they believe themselves to be godlike enough to govern the rest of us through governements. That's pretty much how it stacks up.
    Thoughtful post, Robo
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

  6. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    Can you please show stats on the highlighted statement.
    I have studied the stats on safety and arms, an you statement is incorrect, the polite bit, i am unable to find stats, so i will take your word.
    History has shown (including very modern and present), that a need for a document to overthrow a govt is not required to overthrow a govt.
    At what stage, is an armed uprising internally going to happen. Has the present Potus, indicated that no future elections will be held, As elections are the legitimate method of govt overthrow. And could your forefathers actually indicated that the electoral system was the method of removal of an unpopular govt (Tyrant)
    You are one who wants to limit voting rights to those who do not have political maturity, yet are promoting unlimited arming of these same people who are not mature enough to vote. Is this a loss of freedom.
    Keep typing guy... you are showing how thoroughly you do NOT understand America.... or for that matter history in general.

    And IMO I doubt you understand freedom either... because if you did, you would defend it rather than try to intellectualize it.
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  7. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Keep typing guy... you are showing how thoroughly you do NOT understand America.... or for that matter history in general.

    And IMO I doubt you understand freedom either... because if you did, you would defend it rather than try to intellectualize it.
    Correct, of all the knowledge that is available to be learnt and understood, I know next to nowt! How ever I know this and always willing learn with the freedom of the mind.
    I am free from religious doctrine ( as you can see from other threads I defend the rights of all faiths)
    I am free from political partisanship, ( I do not care where a good idea comes from and open to all ideas)
    I am free because I do not live in the "prison of fear"
    I am free because I live today and for the future, and not in the shadow of the past.

    So I think i understand freedom, and must first start with yourself, and when you find freedom , you will understand, that with this power, comes responsibility.

    You have made an attack without answer any of my questions, I do not have to understand America to understand Data.

  8. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    Correct, of all the knowledge that is available to be learnt and understood, I know next to nowt! How ever I know this and always willing learn with the freedom of the mind.
    I am free from religious doctrine ( as you can see from other threads I defend the rights of all faiths)
    I am free from political partisanship, ( I do not care where a good idea comes from and open to all ideas)
    I am free because I do not live in the "prison of fear"
    I am free because I live today and for the future, and not in the shadow of the past.

    So I think i understand freedom, and must first start with yourself, and when you find freedom , you will understand, that with this power, comes responsibility.

    You have made an attack without answer any of my questions, I do not have to understand America to understand Data.
    An armed militia is needed to overthrow a tyrannical government or a foreign invader. FACT. Those guys back in 1776 knew that, hence our second amendment. That truth applies today.

    I am all for freedom. It has to be secured. Freedom is not willy-nilly thrown about by governments like a Santa Clause passing out gifts to children.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

  9. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    An armed militia is needed to overthrow a tyrannical government or a foreign invader. FACT. Those guys back in 1776 knew that, hence our second amendment. That truth applies today.

    I am all for freedom. It has to be secured. Freedom is not willy-nilly thrown about by governments like a Santa Clause passing out gifts to children.
    Your first statement could be argued both ways, you could look at the recent changes in Egypt, which was basically (not totally) a non violent unarmed removal of a tyrant, or India under Gandi, (both high populous countries) so an armed militia is not always need to overthrow!

    Ok I pose a question, imagine the second amendment was not written, and you had a tyrannic govt, would the lack of a document stop an uprising. I think not. When and what is difference between treasonous and being a patriot.

    Freedom does not come from government it comes from ourselves, and should be a gift that we give to our children, with instructions of course.

  10. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    Your first statement could be argued both ways, you could look at the recent changes in Egypt, which was basically (not totally) a non violent unarmed removal of a tyrant, or India under Gandi, (both high populous countries) so an armed militia is not always need to overthrow!

    Ok I pose a question, imagine the second amendment was not written, and you had a tyrannic govt, would the lack of a document stop an uprising. I think not. When and what is difference between treasonous and being a patriot.

    Freedom does not come from government it comes from ourselves, and should be a gift that we give to our children, with instructions of course.
    No people do not heed a document to overthrow a tyrannical government, a document is useless. They may need arms.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

  11. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    No people do not heed a document to overthrow a tyrannical government, a document is useless. They may need arms.
    They may indeed need arms,

  12. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    No people do not heed a document to overthrow a tyrannical government, a document is useless. They may need arms.
    Based upon your comment, and for discussion purposes only (no insult intended), could it be that the second amendment and sub related documents, where actually no more than a political feel good statement, written for the time when country was young and the leaders wanted the populous to take ownership of the growth of the country.

  13. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    Based upon your comment, and for discussion purposes only (no insult intended), could it be that the second amendment and sub related documents, where actually no more than a political feel good statement, written for the time when country was young and the leaders wanted the populous to take ownership of the growth of the country.
    No. Arms may not be needed if the opposition is very overwhelming. Outside influences can play a role. Such as the case with mubarak The Egyptian dude.

    It is historical fact, and modern fact, proven that the militia wins the war in most cases. They just have an overwhelming numerical advantage and support of the populace. My opinion does not matter one way or the other, this is just documented fact.

    Our second amendment was not a 'feel good statement' by the founding fathers. LOL
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

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