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  1. #66
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    The question is not as much defining the make up of the militia as it is whether the right to bear arms in itself is independent of being part of any militia. My interpretation of the amendment is that the militia was used as a strong argument for the right to bear arms but that it is not written as a requirement to bear arms.
    Gary
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    http://www.oceanhvac.com
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  2. #67
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    Feb 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by corny View Post
    With the 1903 militia act the national guard became the well regulated militia... they are funded...trained...have standards and uniformity...just like the militias the 2nd amendment spoke of....which were the militias described in the 1792 militia act.

    There are still state militias... Tennessee has one.... and while they can be called into service for state duties they are mostly a ceremonial organization.....

    But the ordinary citizen militia.....the unorganized militia spoke of in the 1903 dick act and the US code JP cited...... they aint nothing but a bunch of rabble who serve no purpose other than being called up for the draft.

    Tyranny... ahoy their my mateys..

    OK... so someone like Obama or Pelosi manages to get the armed forced behind them and they start their war on america or whatever a tyrannical government would do to the nation.....

    The unorganized rabble..... who gives them the call to arms..... do they meet somewhere to go over plans... what kind of rank structure do they have.... are you going to have 20 guys showing up over at Joes garage each one of them calling himself a general ??? Where is the structure ??? Rules ??? Guidlines ???

    And this unorganized rabble..... what about the ones who are going to side with Obama or Pelosi and their tyrannical mission to take the US.... how are we going to tell these guys apart from the rabble that want to save the union.....???

    You see.... an unorganized rabble that has no mission set forth, no standing rules or guidlines, nothing whatsoever but the name....the unorganized militia....... wouldnt be good for anything unless they were taken under control by the government and brought under some sort of structured system.

    My god.... could you see these guys.... a hundred generals riding down the road in thier suvs and pickup trucks.... they see an Obama army humvee with a couple of soldiers in it.... The pileup would be massive as all these self appointed generals all tried to turn around at once and flee the battle with the humvee and the 2 soldiers driving it down the road.
    I've asked these questions twice now on here, perhaps you'll do better to secure an answer.

  3. #68
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    Apr 2007
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    Kaufman county, Texas
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    10,079
    Quote Originally Posted by corny View Post
    With the 1903 militia act the national guard became the well regulated militia... they are funded...trained...have standards and uniformity...just like the militias the 2nd amendment spoke of....which were the militias described in the 1792 militia act.

    There are still state militias... Tennessee has one.... and while they can be called into service for state duties they are mostly a ceremonial organization.....

    But the ordinary citizen militia.....the unorganized militia spoke of in the 1903 dick act and the US code JP cited...... they aint nothing but a bunch of rabble who serve no purpose other than being called up for the draft.

    Tyranny... ahoy their my mateys..

    OK... so someone like Obama or Pelosi manages to get the armed forced behind them and they start their war on america or whatever a tyrannical government would do to the nation.....

    The unorganized rabble..... who gives them the call to arms..... do they meet somewhere to go over plans... what kind of rank structure do they have.... are you going to have 20 guys showing up over at Joes garage each one of them calling himself a general ??? Where is the structure ??? Rules ??? Guidlines ???

    And this unorganized rabble..... what about the ones who are going to side with Obama or Pelosi and their tyrannical mission to take the US.... how are we going to tell these guys apart from the rabble that want to save the union.....???

    You see.... an unorganized rabble that has no mission set forth, no standing rules or guidlines, nothing whatsoever but the name....the unorganized militia....... wouldnt be good for anything unless they were taken under control by the government and brought under some sort of structured system.

    My god.... could you see these guys.... a hundred generals riding down the road in thier suvs and pickup trucks.... they see an Obama army humvee with a couple of soldiers in it.... The pileup would be massive as all these self appointed generals all tried to turn around at once and flee the battle with the humvee and the 2 soldiers driving it down the road.
    Lybia, Afganistan, Syria..... You have no idea about what you are talking Corny.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

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  4. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    Your very funny robo. For that to work you left out two things. One you would need to store it in an underground bunker preferably under a mountain to contain the explosion in case of an accidental explosion or sabotage.

    Then of course there is the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty to dial with. Of course I guess you could argue that the 2nd Amendment "trumps" the treaty. LOL. Yeah let me know how it goes after you made your 2nd billion and are building your "defensive" nuclear bomb. ​Perhaps you could test it out on the Berkeley campus. LOL. Have a Merry Christmas there robo. Thank you, thank you very much
    LOL! As much as I deplore wholes killing of masses, I kind of like your Berkley idea.... ho-ho-ho to you and yours as well.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  5. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by hearthman View Post
    I've got news for you Robo--you CAN own artillery. You can even build your own. We used to build replica black powder cannons and shoot them at re-enactments and live fire competitions. The only thing regulated is the powder. We constructed a powder magazine in accordance with ATF specs and paperwork. Each man was allowed 25lbs. apiece and only have to chart in a journal each time he made a withdrawal and could take up to 5 pounds per day. With a special license, the cannon owners could draw up to 50 pounds per day. Now, a typical black powder cannon can shoot over one mile. While exploding ordinance was not allowed, a bad guy could certainly produce them easily.

    Again, it's not what the Constitution allows but the opposite: we are allowed to have to do any d@mn thing we want except what is specifically listed in the Constitution or Statutes and regs. as long as they themselves are found Constitutional.
    Not news to me. I've worked with canon owners for scouting events. You missed my point that since the specifics were not spelled out, it has been up to government to provide specifics for new technology, which it has done. As you stated, how much powder is allowed and there be no live ammo "IS" regulated by later additions to the law.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  6. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mojo View Post
    http://onlygunsandmoney.********.com...an-on-cnn.html

    Corny you mean you are using an opinion of this due to redefine the 2nd ammendment Brady style.

    Our own Federal Government suppiied weapons to the Mexican cartel,via the BATFE.

    Oh, and I remember when Fox was leaving,just who was screaming the loudest about our gun dealers selling weapons to Mexico. And the democrats are thinking about 2016.

    Talk about under the radar. Care for a swiss cheese sandwich,nice try though.
    Once again, it is our government that creates issues much more so than our citizens.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  7. #72
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    Dec 2011
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    New Zealand
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Once again, it is our government that creates issues much more so than our citizens.
    Why do blame the government, when it is the citizens that choose the government.

  8. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    Why do blame the government, when it is the citizens that choose the government.
    This is unfortunately true. My real argument is to try to convince those Americans who think giving government so much power and control over our lives is not a good thing.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  9. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    This is unfortunately true. My real argument is to try to convince those Americans who think giving government so much power and control over our lives is not a good thing.
    As humans, we tend to herd together, and strive have some form of order, some more than others. Then in comes to self confidence in ones ability to survive or make ones own order (in what ever method), if you do not have this confidence, then you are going to look to a group that can provide this order. Increase govt power and regulation.
    It is the difficult balance between long life security (health, food, shelter and actual security) and the ability to advance oneself with ones own hard work.

  10. #75
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    Sep 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    Can you please show stats on the highlighted statement.
    I have studied the stats on safety and arms, an you statement is incorrect, the polite bit, i am unable to find stats, so i will take your word.
    History has shown (including very modern and present), that a need for a document to overthrow a govt is not required to overthrow a govt.
    At what stage, is an armed uprising internally going to happen. Has the present Potus, indicated that no future elections will be held, As elections are the legitimate method of govt overthrow. And could your forefathers actually indicated that the electoral system was the method of removal of an unpopular govt (Tyrant)
    You are one who wants to limit voting rights to those who do not have political maturity, yet are promoting unlimited arming of these same people who are not mature enough to vote. Is this a loss of freedom.
    Read John Lott.

    More Guns, Less Crime.

    It's enlightening.

    As I've stated before (maybe not in this thread, there are two running) a society completely without guns would, of course, be a society completely without gun violence.

    Unfortunately, Pandora's box is open, the guns aren't going away, so we're left to deal as best as we can.

  11. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    As humans, we tend to herd together, and strive have some form of order, some more than others. Then in comes to self confidence in ones ability to survive or make ones own order (in what ever method), if you do not have this confidence, then you are going to look to a group that can provide this order. Increase govt power and regulation.
    It is the difficult balance between long life security (health, food, shelter and actual security) and the ability to advance oneself with ones own hard work.
    I agree, although from previous conversations, probably from a different viewpoint.

    We are indeed a social species of animal. Some differences between humans and other species of animals are our egos and our ability to make rational decisions regardless of environmental stimuli. This is what allows most of us to have faith that there is a supreme Creator of the Universe, whom we may learn proper behaviour from and benefit from in life. Our first step toward being able to have faith in ourselves is to be able to have faith in that which we refer to as "God".

    For those who deny God, they must find a substitution for God or declare themselves to be like that which those of faith refer to as God. In other words, to deny God is to feel godlike. Since only a few who deny God can believe in themselves without some other guideance, most who deny God must look for another benevolent source to believe in. This is where those who determine themselves to be godlike are able to develope governments that replace God for those whose faith is too weak to be able to believe beyond what they can see, hear, smell, taste or touch.

    Since God is within ourselves, to deny God is to deny ourselves. Without being part of government, most who believe in government as the benevolent source of well being have no way of having faith in themselves. Those with a lack of faith in God and themselves must rely solely and completely on their belief in government, which in truth is just other humans acting godlike. Man becomes reliant on other men who have no interest in the self worth of anyone but themselves.

    So, either we have worth by having faith in ourselves through our belief in a supreme Creator of mankind, or we give up our self worth and rely on those who have so much self worth that they believe themselves to be godlike enough to govern the rest of us through governements. That's pretty much how it stacks up.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  12. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    Read John Lott.

    More Guns, Less Crime.

    It's enlightening.

    As I've stated before (maybe not in this thread, there are two running) a society completely without guns would, of course, be a society completely without gun violence.

    Unfortunately, Pandora's box is open, the guns aren't going away, so we're left to deal as best as we can.
    It may come across that I am anti gun, I am not, i am pro gun, but not for any of the reason mentioned. I am pro gun only because of the pure pleasure that they bring, hunting, target shooting and even engineering.
    The Militia issue i do think in a modern democracy is just BS, and could become a circular cycle, increased and better quality for the armed forces, therefore better and more for the civilian population to protect against the armed forces, where does it stop.
    As far a personal protection, it "maybe" be better to have a gun than not, increasing potential personal security (ownership alone without training would seem pointless), however increased gun ownership, without regulation, decreases societal security.
    As far as protection of property (especially non home property) I have insurance, if a crim wants my van and tools he can have it, I would not but my life or any other for that matter over something that i can easily cover. (not saying that it should be made easy for the crim or without penalty)

    I do not think you will ever stop an intelligent mad man!

  13. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    I do not think you will ever stop an intelligent mad man!
    BINGO!


    Anyone else notice that many of these shooters were described as being 'geniuses'?

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