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  1. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    I very much agree with your first statement, that the gun issue is somewhat more cultural than factual.

    I did but up a counter claim on Jmacs post, regarding the difference in Homicide rates "less guns less homicide", can we see how easy it is to manipulate data to a point of view.

    If you feel that there is no room for improvement, then why make a change. But I think if that was the case then this and other threads would not be running or have any interest.
    Not sure I said the gun heritage was or was not factual... may be a difference of word usage.

    The difference between other so called 'civilized' cultures (matter of opinion) and America is: We as rugged individuals expect others to be a bit 'tougher' than some of you cultural folks... and as such a 'weak' person ends up being taken advantage of. When one is in Rome, one plays by Roman rules...

    I see no need for improvement... especially if that so called improvement includes more govt intervention into my life. Remember the USA was formed by folks who did NOT want govt intervention into citizens lives... it is the lack of understanding on the part of citizens that allowed the amount we have now.

    Manipulation of data goes both ways... this is why one has to research a whale load of data to find trends. Simply citing one or two facts does not define a social trend.

    As long as there are folks alive who wish to discuss... there will be discussions... Some casual and some heated... depending on how passionate folks are about their beliefs.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

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    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

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  2. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    Polecats left and right are always after power and control.

    In NZ we do not get to see much of your political figures (in direct interviews), who cares about being interviewed by a reporter from NZ, so our interviews overseas are generally Mums and Dads (are they after there 5 mins of fame, even if it is only in NZ) and our reporters are fairly neutral, balanced on most issues. So there does seem some concern about the proliferation of guns and responsible gun ownership. Which is also a little funny that the ones who are concerned, are still buying guns. A good business to be in at the moment.
    What you will find... which IMO is typical behavior of a polecat... is speaking out of their mouths for gun control and ultimately totally dis-arming the public (leaving them defenseless)... While the VERY SAME persons will be carrying their own firearms, along with half/dozen bodyguards with fully automatic weapons (machine guns)... and they see nothing wrong with this double standard.

    Now tell me... would you trust a polecat like that to demand you become defenseless? I would not... and our founders believed we never should... thus 1st and 2nd amendments.
    In a nutshell... govt CANNOT restrict speech (stop someone from telling the truth about a crooked polecat), and govt CANNOT refuse to allow a citizen to defend himself--keep and bear arms (unless the citizen has a record of crime).

    These two principles are the basis of our sense of freedom... that is: FREEDOM FROM BAD GOVERNMENT... and we all know that as long as govt is run by humans... there will be greed and dishonesty and crookedness and corruption and... and... and... SOOO There will always be the need for free speech and freedom to defend oneself.

    Now there is reference made to our society being more violent than others... Well we are also a melting pot of many cultures. Try to add Hispanics, Blacks, Orientals, Natives (whomever was in NZ before the white man came), and a host of others... all who want as large a slice of the pie as they can grab from another... and you have a recipe for less than community oriented behavior... happens when multi-culturalism is encouraged. You folks with basically one race and culture do not know how easy you have it... come up here for a few years... and you will see.

    Time to get some ZZZ's... have some calls to run in the morning.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  3. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    Glenn, I agree, I do not think you nee justification to own a gun, more that you just have the right.

    Is the real argument, which is the stronger, The right to own a gun, or owning a gun then infringing the right freedom liberty and happiness (I hope have that right) others.
    I am gonna stick my nose in here:

    Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness... so long as this does not infringe on the same rights of another...

    See the 2nd paragraph of the Declaration of Independence.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  4. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    I am gonna stick my nose in here:

    Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness... so long as this does not infringe on the same rights of another...

    See the 2nd paragraph of the Declaration of Independence.
    Thank you for the correction.

  5. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    What you will find... which IMO is typical behavior of a polecat... is speaking out of their mouths for gun control and ultimately totally dis-arming the public (leaving them defenseless)... While the VERY SAME persons will be carrying their own firearms, along with half/dozen bodyguards with fully automatic weapons (machine guns)... and they see nothing wrong with this double standard.

    Now tell me... would you trust a polecat like that to demand you become defenseless? I would not... and our founders believed we never should... thus 1st and 2nd amendments.
    In a nutshell... govt CANNOT restrict speech (stop someone from telling the truth about a crooked polecat), and govt CANNOT refuse to allow a citizen to defend himself--keep and bear arms (unless the citizen has a record of crime).

    These two principles are the basis of our sense of freedom... that is: FREEDOM FROM BAD GOVERNMENT... and we all know that as long as govt is run by humans... there will be greed and dishonesty and crookedness and corruption and... and... and... SOOO There will always be the need for free speech and freedom to defend oneself.

    Now there is reference made to our society being more violent than others... Well we are also a melting pot of many cultures. Try to add Hispanics, Blacks, Orientals, Natives (whomever was in NZ before the white man came), and a host of others... all who want as large a slice of the pie as they can grab from another... and you have a recipe for less than community oriented behavior... happens when multi-culturalism is encouraged. You folks with basically one race and culture do not know how easy you have it... come up here for a few years... and you will see.

    Time to get some ZZZ's... have some calls to run in the morning.
    NZ may surprise you in the multi culture issue.

    The natives as you call them "Moari" were a warrior race, and the crown decided (after an early attempt to win by force), to settle with the Moari, with a document somewhat similar to your constitution. It was written in word and terms for the day, today we still have legal eagles (very well paid) who manipulate the treaty. So the crown (tax payers in modern terms) are still paying for settlements.

    Auckland our largest city, is also called the capital of Polynesia ( due to the large amount of Polynesians)

    We have a large population of Asians and Orientals ( both new and historical),

    Most European and middle eastern countires are also included, in my area specifically French (historical)

    We do not have hispanic and but a small negro population. (historical)

    So i can say that we are melting pot of a wide variety of cultures,

    When choosing NZ as somewhere to live, you also accept being a bit more liberal (liberal as open minded, not political) in the way others live.

    I am all for multiculturalism, adds spice to life.

  6. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    NZ may surprise you in the multi culture issue.

    The natives as you call them "Moari" were a warrior race, and the crown decided (after an early attempt to win by force), to settle with the Moari, with a document somewhat similar to your constitution. It was written in word and terms for the day, today we still have legal eagles (very well paid) who manipulate the treaty. So the crown (tax payers in modern terms) are still paying for settlements.

    Auckland our largest city, is also called the capital of Polynesia ( due to the large amount of Polynesians)

    We have a large population of Asians and Orientals ( both new and historical),

    Most European and middle eastern countires are also included, in my area specifically French (historical)

    We do not have hispanic and but a small negro population. (historical)

    So i can say that we are melting pot of a wide variety of cultures,

    When choosing NZ as somewhere to live, you also accept being a bit more liberal (liberal as open minded, not political) in the way others live.

    I am all for multiculturalism, adds spice to life.
    Yes, multi0culturalism may add 'spice' to life... however it also seems to add the need for more govt control. I wonder sometimes if the idea of promoting multi-culturalism (and all the high-brow intellectual feel good that goes along with it) is not just another ploy of polecats to create need for more control... so they can come to the rescue. As you so well noted... that is what polecats are about.

    We have seen clearly in the business world; folks tend to create need with creative advertising (see the endless adds about whitening toothpaste)... Why would a polecat be any different?

    Personally, it is of no issue to me until the polecats start trampling on my freedoms... then it is wrong.

    BTW: Our Constitution is not about relating to the natives... it is about freedom for ALL Citizens. Now I fully realize there was some hypocrisy in the way the native Indians were treated... yet when we go through history we see this in most countries. The land belongs to the conqueror. Just life.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

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    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  7. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Yes, multi0culturalism may add 'spice' to life... however it also seems to add the need for more govt control. I wonder sometimes if the idea of promoting multi-culturalism (and all the high-brow intellectual feel good that goes along with it) is not just another ploy of polecats to create need for more control... so they can come to the rescue. As you so well noted... that is what polecats are about.

    We have seen clearly in the business world; folks tend to create need with creative advertising (see the endless adds about whitening toothpaste)... Why would a polecat be any different?

    Personally, it is of no issue to me until the polecats start trampling on my freedoms... then it is wrong.

    BTW: Our Constitution is not about relating to the natives... it is about freedom for ALL Citizens. Now I fully realize there was some hypocrisy in the way the native Indians were treated... yet when we go through history we see this in most countries. The land belongs to the conqueror. Just life.
    That is sort of the difference, NZ was not conquered. much was learnt form the US.
    The treaty in simple terms gives equal right to all, on crown issues, and whilst leaving cultural rights to natives.

    It is up to us as the voters to keep the polecats in check.

  8. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post
    the people trying to make changes to the Gun laws, don't really care about gun laws, they do care about power and control.

    Oddly enough, the most powerful people that want these changes are........Jewish?

    Feinstein, Boxer, Schumer, Lautenberg, Bloomberg. How weird is that

    I just find it weird that the most persecuted people on the planet WANT gun control
    It's a mystery to me too why so many Jews continue to support Socialism. It's not like Socialism hasn't
    caused Jews of the world a lot of troubles. But ever since Lenin instituted Communist Socailism into Russia, deposing the anti-Jewish tzars, Jews have been touting the alleged benefits of Socialism. You'd think they would have learned how badly socialism can be abused when Stalin took power and Russian Jews had to flee for their lives.

    My wife's family on her father's side all come from her grandparents, who both had to flee from Stalin's Russia. Yet, they still support socialist Democrats. We are talking about very intelligent and responsible people who I have the utmost respect for....yet they continue to support a politico-social structure that has a history of being extremely oppressive to their direct ancestry. It's an enigma of the oddest kind, to me.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  9. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    That is sort of the difference, NZ was not conquered. much was learnt form the US.
    The treaty in simple terms gives equal right to all, on crown issues, and whilst leaving cultural rights to natives.

    It is up to us as the voters to keep the polecats in check.
    On this you and I are in total agreement... and I believe the USA has the govt they deserve... because the ones who want a more conservative govt are not involved enough (numbers).
    GA-HVAC-Tech

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    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  10. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    My wife's family on her father's side all come from her grandparents, who both had to flee from Stalin's Russia. Yet, they still support socialist Democrats. We are talking about very intelligent and responsible people who I have the utmost respect for....yet they continue to support a politico-social structure that has a history of being extremely oppressive to their direct ancestry. It's an enigma of the oddest kind, to me.
    Being intelligent and responsible people they recognize that the shallow caricature fostered by the laughable Jonah Goldberg crowd bears no resemblance to the party they support.

    Further, unlike some, they don't see socialists behind every bush or consider everything that does not conform to their ideology as socialism.

  11. #180
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    It's also an enigma why leftists are so dishonest to not admit they are Socialists by trying to claim that Socialism is something other than it is. It kinda reminds me of that skit that Dave Chapel did about being a Black KKK guy. At least my wife's one uncle proudly proclaims himself to be a Socialist, which is really bizarre since the guy has always been a hard working man who could have done a lot better with his money than the SS checks and Medical benefits he gets from government.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  12. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by geerair View Post
    Being intelligent and responsible people they recognize that the shallow caricature fostered by the laughable Jonah Goldberg crowd bears no resemblance to the party they support.

    Further, unlike some, they don't see socialists behind every bush or consider everything that does not conform to their ideology as socialism.
    Ok Sneering One, give us examples of things Jonah Goldberg has said that are incorrect and therefore, "laughable".

    BTW, McCarthy was laughed at and mocked for is supposed "paranoia" but he was been largely proven correct as our current situation proves. A typical liberal tactic is to cast doubt or dispersion without backing your assertion up with facts.

    If you want to compare Jews vs. socialism, ask Polish and German Jews how they feel about the NAZI party...

  13. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    It's also an enigma why leftists are so dishonest to not admit they are Socialists by trying to claim that Socialism is something other than it is. It kinda reminds me of that skit that Dave Chapel did about being a Black KKK guy. At least my wife's one uncle proudly proclaims himself to be a Socialist, which is really bizarre since the guy has always been a hard working man who could have done a lot better with his money than the SS checks and Medical benefits he gets from government.
    Well heck robo, while not being a "student" of Jewish Culture and heritage as I believe you are. I do know that "Karl Marx" was a Jew and wrote the Communist Manifesto and this had wide support within Jewish groups.

    I believe it must be in their culture but this is only my opinion. Perhaps you could expound upon this phenomena. I have often being curious myself about this. Thank you, thank you very much
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."
    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."
    Barry Goldwater

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