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  1. #131
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    7,813
    Thumbhole stocks...

    36 inch minimum barrel length on long guns

    2 inch max barrel length on handguns but with a foot long rail welded to the top of the barrel to make it harder to conceal.

    Integral fixed magazines, 5 round max capacity....

    I cant think of any more now.... besides the lights and strobes for the ends of the barrels that make your gun look like the end of a runway when you withdraw and point it.....

    Its whats coming.......

    Americans..... the worlds D students....fighting the second amendment battle when the defeat is going to be dealt in a different way.

    Obama aint gonna take your guns.... but he is going to make you look and sound like a one man band when you shoulder or unholster that thing.
    YOU SHALL REAP WHAT YOU HAVE _______ SOWN

  2. #132
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,944
    Quote Originally Posted by catmanacman View Post
    your kidding
    No! He's British!
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  3. #133
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Ripley, WV
    Posts
    1,166
    If guns should be outlawed because people use them to harm others, let me ask this: If I get mad at a customer and shoot him in the face with freon from my gauge manifold and they go blind should they give me a slap on the wrist and ban all refrigerants and sets of gauges?

  4. #134
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    2,203
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    I'd feel better if I lived in a world where I didn't feel that circumstances could require me to defend myself. So no, carrying a weapon, in and of itself, in no way makes me "feel good".

    I can only guess that since you don't have the option to carry a gun, you cannot comprehend the difference it makes in ones mind to be responsible for carrying a gun. Despite what foreigners may believe, Americans don't all fancy ourselves as some sort of wild west cowboys just because we have the right to arm ourselves. Being armed is a responsibility, not some feel good thing we do.
    I agree with your first statement, hence why I live in NZ. (no NZ is not crime free, before you ask)

    I am able to own, use guns, store guns at home, and transport guns. I have enjoyed clay pigeon shooting, target practice, hunting, even though I enjoyed the thrill of the chase, I did not enjoy killing solely for sport, sort made worse that a shot from 500 yards, does not seem to give the beast a sporting chance. However, I see the pleasure hunting and target shooting gives to many, and when regulated can also be environmentally beneficial. And certainly would not want to ban guns from responsible gun owners.

    I do not think just owning a gun is a deterrent to armed crim or even practically useful, but if it were regulated that all that owned guns, had to be trained and had continual practice, then a different kettle of fish.

    I agree not all Americans see them selves as wild west Cowboys, as usual, the few that do spoil for the rest.

  5. #135
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    I'm an old cowhand from the Rio Grande
    Posts
    17,089
    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post
    on top of what Huge B said, what I posted ARE FACTS, geer can't come up with any fact to support anything he says
    What you have is statistics and two trends.

    There is indeed a correlation between these two trends.

    You then state that one trend provides causation of the other.

    All you have done is show that there is a statistical correlation between the trends. Not a terribly high bar to achieve.

    You cannot show a causal relationshop between the trends because you have no evidence that one trend is influencing the other.

    In other words you have answered the question "Is there a correlation between these two trends?"

    The question you have not answered "Is there a causal link between the two trends?"

  6. #136
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    I'm an old cowhand from the Rio Grande
    Posts
    17,089
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob_in_WV View Post
    If guns should be outlawed because people use them to harm others, let me ask this: If I get mad at a customer and shoot him in the face with freon from my gauge manifold and they go blind should they give me a slap on the wrist and ban all refrigerants and sets of gauges?
    Are freon and gauges used regulary in mass killings? If yes, then they should be banned,

  7. #137
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,944
    cigarettes are responsible for more mass deaths than anything else. Vehicles are next and then, I believe, doctors. So, the most horrifying thing one can hope not to have to see coming their way is a doctor, smoking a cigarette while driving a vehicle....
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  8. #138
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,944
    Here are the numbers for the top reasons for death in the U.S. in 2009;

    Number of deaths for leading causes of death

    • Heart disease: 599,413
    • Cancer: 567,628
    • Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 137,353
    • Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 128,842
    • Accidents (unintentional injuries): 118,021
    • Alzheimer's disease: 79,003
    • Diabetes: 68,705
    • Influenza and Pneumonia: 53,692
    • Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 48,935
    • Intentional self-harm (suicide): 36,909



    Note that deaths by gunshot didn't make this list. That's because there were a bit over 31,000 deaths attributed to guns with nearly 60% of those being suicides and most of the homocides being killings between gang members.

    So, suicides and gang members are gonna kill themselves and one another whether there are guns or not, they will find a way. That leaves about 8,000 gun related deaths due to bad guys committing crimes and accidental deaths due to irresponsible gun owners.

    With gun deaths so far down the list of ways that Americans die before we get old, just what is the real agenda for those who want to disarm us?
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  9. #139
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Kaufman county, Texas
    Posts
    10,080
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Here are the numbers for the top reasons for death in the U.S. in 2009;

    Number of deaths for leading causes of death

    • Heart disease: 599,413


    • Cancer: 567,628
    • Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 137,353
    • Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 128,842
    • Accidents (unintentional injuries): 118,021
    • Alzheimer's disease: 79,003
    • Diabetes: 68,705
    • Influenza and Pneumonia: 53,692
    • Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 48,935
    • Intentional self-harm (suicide): 36,909



    Note that deaths by gunshot didn't make this list. That's because there were a bit over 31,000 deaths attributed to guns with nearly 60% of those being suicides and most of the homocides being killings between gang members.

    So, suicides and gang members are gonna kill themselves and one another whether there are guns or not, they will find a way. That leaves about 8,000 gun related deaths due to bad guys committing crimes and accidental deaths due to irresponsible gun owners.

    With gun deaths so far down the list of ways that Americans die before we get old, just what is the real agenda for those who want to disarm us?
    Gun ownership is associated with conservatives. So is bible ownership. Right now they just want our guns. After they take our bibles we will be just like them. Liberals understand we are 'clinging to guns and bibles' and it really infuriates them to no end.

    Liberals do not want you to have a gun, and they do not want you to have a bible. Absolute bans are generally substituted with any means of diminished right or respect of said items.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

  10. #140
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    469
    Make them By the masses,,

    Just treat GunPwder Like Ozone depletion refrigerant.

  11. #141
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    25,668
    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    Fact
    Homicide rate per 100K in the USA 4.2
    Homicide rate per 100K in the UK 1.2

    If violent crime is higher, why do you think the homicide rate is lower. Could it be that there is less guns available,
    post hoc ergo propter hoc.

    The murder rate in the UK has ALWAYS been lower than that in the USA.

  12. #142
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    2,203
    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    post hoc ergo propter hoc.

    The murder rate in the UK has ALWAYS been lower than that in the USA.
    I agree, the problem with raw data , it can be applied to suit an argument.

    I prime example, I can give is that the city which I lived in (teens and 20s) was the most violent city in the UK, Most Murders, Attempted Murders and Rapes. by quite high %, but what raw data did not say, is that most of these crimes were confined to families. It was a rough working class city (textiles) and yes there was plenty of biffo (at times i was involved, typically on every Friday and Saturday Night), but I can say I never feared for my life and do not know any that carried a gun, knives and razors were quite common.

  13. #143
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Dacula, GA
    Posts
    12,601
    Funny many on here think that the Second Amendment implies that you need to belong to a "militia" to possess a firearm. That is pure BS.

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    It is clear that the amendment addresses "people" not the Militia as who can bear arms. You can not "infringe" upon the right of the people to bear arms rather or not they belong to a Militia. It's pretty clear to me. But I'm sure a liberal wearing pink colored glasses can see it that way. Thank you, thank you very much
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."
    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."
    Barry Goldwater

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