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  1. #1
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    The second amendment

    The Second Amendment to the US Constitution:

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    Lets look at this and discuss what the founding fathers had in mind when they wrote it.

    A well regulated militia: Seems we are talking about a group of folks ORGANIZED into a fighting unit

    being necessary to the security of a free state: Ahhh... it would appear the founders understood that govt, like any other humans, needed to have a force resisting unlimited power... to keep then in check.

    The right of the people to keep and bear arms: The RIGHT of people to keep and bear arms... seems today we have folks literally SCREAMING they have a right to govt checks, healthcare, etc... looks to me like the founders decided firearms was/is a right also.

    Shall not be infringed. STRONG language there... kinda like "What part of no do you not understand" or "Do not step across this line"

    GA's comment: The second amendment, as most of the others, were written and are intended to be interpreted as the rule of law the citizens have the right to take to the govt and literally DEMAND the govt submit themselves to. Again, the founders understood the principles of unbridled power... and put in many a safeguard to give citizens the power to tell govt "NO you will not".

    As discussed in different threads... The founders knew what was a lethal weapon and what was not... yet they still chose to not put any limitations on what was acceptable and what was not. Seems to me they were more interested in preserving freedom than arguing over gun types. Along this thinking... I see there is no restriction to owning a cannon... so again the founders were not interested in the tools... they were interested in preserving freedom from an oppressive govt.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

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  2. #2
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    That a good dissection and interpretation, at the same time our founding fathers and the People knew that there would be swift and severe punishment for anyone who used the protected fire arms for the purpose of bringing harm to another human being. That's what our society has lost. We're too busy coddling these criminals to deliver the said punishments and the result is the current mentality that taking guns away from people will make us safer, which is far from the truth.

    BTW I'm an avid supporter of our 2nd amendment.

  3. #3
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    What about nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons. Should citizens be able to possess those?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigtime View Post
    What about nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons. Should citizens be able to possess those?
    Because we all know that they do not kill people either...which is laughable.

    Why didn't the NRA oppose restrictions put on the sale of fertilizer? We should all know by now that bombs don’t kill. Therefore the possession of bombs does not pose any threat on society, right?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    Because we all know that they do not kill people either...which is laughable.

    Why didn't the NRA oppose restrictions put on the sale of fertilizer? We should all know by now that bombs don’t kill. Therefore the possession of bombs does not pose any threat on society, right?
    Nope they don't pose a threat. It's the wack-jobs that use them that pose a threat. Just like baseball bats, knives, cars, and the first weapon a rock.
    Don't worry zombies are looking for brains, you're safe...

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ControlsInMT View Post
    Nope they don't pose a threat. It's the wack-jobs that use them that pose a threat. Just like baseball bats, knives, cars, and the first weapon a rock.
    Comparing bombs to bats...I can't even respond.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    [SIZE=3] A well regulated militia: Seems we are talking about a group of folks ORGANIZED into a fighting unit
    Yes, sounds just like the National Guard.

    being necessary to the security of a free state: Ahhh... it would appear the founders understood that govt, like any other humans, needed to have a force resisting unlimited power... to keep then in check.
    In the context of those times it appears more likely they were referring to external threats.

    The right of the people to keep and bear arms: The RIGHT of people to keep and bear arms... seems today we have folks literally SCREAMING they have a right to govt checks, healthcare, etc... looks to me like the founders decided firearms was/is a right also.
    And like all rights.......not absolute

    Shall not be infringed. STRONG language there... kinda like "What part of no do you not understand"
    More like what part of well regulated do you not understand?

    GA's comment: The second amendment, as most of the others, were written and are intended to be interpreted as the rule of law the citizens have the right to take to the govt and literally DEMAND the govt submit themselves to. Again, the founders understood the principles of unbridled power... and put in many a safeguard to give citizens the power to tell govt "NO you will not".
    Might need to consider some checks on your paranoia.

    As discussed in different threads... The founders knew what was a lethal weapon and what was not... yet they still chose to not put any limitations on what was acceptable and what was not.
    False

    Seems to me they were more interested in preserving freedom than arguing over gun types. Along this thinking... I see there is no restriction to owning a cannon... so again the founders were not interested in the tools... they were interested in preserving freedom from an oppressive govt.
    Novel but hardly valid interpretation.

  8. #8
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    Well lessee...

    It is said one can look up on the internet how to build a nuclear bomb.... so theoretically one could have one... albeit they would have a time getting fissionable material to fuel it with.

    Chemical weapons can be easily manufactured with stuff from the cleaning section of the local grocer store or BigBox store... same with biological weapons.

    What we need to look at is: criminals are not gonna follow the laws anyhow... so it does not matter what is legal and what is illegal.

    The point is: When we have lots of TRAINED citizens with CCW permits... crime goes down. This is a fact which cannot be refuted. SOOO: logic would say to me there is another reason govt types want to restrict gun ownership... which leads back to the 2nd amendment: To keep corrupt folks who lust for power and have managed to get elected... under the control of citizens.

    We need to remember: Gun control is NOT about lowering crime... it is about political control.

    When we have one of these mass shooting tragedies happen... the media fans the flames of "We have to do something, now"... and a silly law is passed before we think about it... Examples are:
    The patriot act,
    Obamacare,
    Gun bans,
    etc.

    We as a society really need to not let ourselves make decisions out of our emotions... rather slow down the momentum of 'urgency' and think carefully whether the decision is valid or not... as in "Will it really resolve anything, or is it just to feel better".

    Off to fix a no heat call.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Well lessee...

    It is said one can look up on the internet how to build a nuclear bomb.... so theoretically one could have one... albeit they would have a time getting fissionable material to fuel it with.

    Chemical weapons can be easily manufactured with stuff from the cleaning section of the local grocer store or BigBox store... same with biological weapons.

    What we need to look at is: criminals are not gonna follow the laws anyhow... so it does not matter what is legal and what is illegal.

    The point is: When we have lots of TRAINED citizens with CCW permits... crime goes down. This is a fact which cannot be refuted. SOOO: logic would say to me there is another reason govt types want to restrict gun ownership... which leads back to the 2nd amendment: To keep corrupt folks who lust for power and have managed to get elected... under the control of citizens.

    We need to remember: Gun control is NOT about lowering crime... it is about political control.

    When we have one of these mass shooting tragedies happen... the media fans the flames of "We have to do something, now"... and a silly law is passed before we think about it... Examples are:
    The patriot act,
    Obamacare,
    Gun bans,
    etc.

    We as a society really need to not let ourselves make decisions out of our emotions... rather slow down the momentum of 'urgency' and think carefully whether the decision is valid or not... as in "Will it really resolve anything, or is it just to feel better".

    Off to fix a no heat call.
    Classic case of black heliocopter paranoia

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by geerair View Post
    More like what part of well regulated do you not understand?
    I've been having a lot of fun, lately with those who do not understand the phrase "well regulated" in the context that it was written.

    Finally, the adjective “well-regulated” implies nothing
    more than the imposition of proper discipline and training.
    This is taken from the District of Columbia vs Heller decision

    http://www.scotusblog.com/wp-content.../06/07-290.pdf

    Interesting reading if you're up to it.

  11. #11
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    I am not american (As GA likes to remind me), But I can read, well sort of.
    The founding documents are not infinite, as your forefathers clearly knew that over time society evolves, and that changes can be be made, but not lightly.
    So if changes are made, using correct due process, than changes would not be "non constitutional"
    Good will to all at this time of year.

  12. #12
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    Jan 2001
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    I believe the 1792 militia act spelled out what kinds of weapons were supposed to be carried by members of "the militia". Look it up....pretty interesting what these guys had to have.

    Lets put up a link...shall we... http://www.constitution.org/mil/mil_act_1792.htm

    scroll down to see the arms requirements
    YOU SHALL REAP WHAT YOU HAVE _______ SOWN

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by corny View Post
    I believe the 1792 militia act spelled out what kinds of weapons were supposed to be carried by members of "the militia". Look it up....pretty interesting what these guys had to have.

    Lets put up a link...shall we... http://www.constitution.org/mil/mil_act_1792.htm

    scroll down to see the arms requirements
    Lol, you can only serve in that militia if you're white, or so it says.
    It sounds like the national guard covers pretty much all the requirements of that act.

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