Steam Boiler, Excessive water useage

[dandyme]

not all leaks will be this easy to locate

that's one of +/- a dozen leaks, all on return line.

[mechanical'al]

Hopefully it goes back into the boiler or theres where the water is going
also why isn't there a Hartford loop installed???

[hvacvegas]

The reason mechanical'al mentioned you'd flood the boiler, is during the down cycle.
You feed, you feed, and you feed, and the condensate is getting stuck up in the return, due to clogged returns.

During the down cycle, all that water will make it's way back to the boiler, eventually.
Now it's flooded.

Steam coming out of the condensate pump tells me you've got broken traps.
Probably broken vents too.

[knarfoires]

I think the boiler would certainly flood due to old return lines and I would see the flooding in the sight glass, however, the sight glass never rises past 1'' above the lower glass gauge valve.......The auto water feeder has dip two switches that you can set. The first switch is for gallons of water that will be fed to the boiler when there is a call for water from the low water cut off probe. The second switch is a delay time set. This delay can be set for up to 20 minutes. It will stop the auto water feeder to the set time to allow water to run back thru the old return lines and dump back into the water. Right now I have it set for 10 minutes due to the old lines. I will inspect the two steam traps and verify that the vents are working.... Thanks again!

[knarfoires]

Hunting for leaks on Wednesday.... Thanks for your time...Frank S.

[knarfoires]

Piping was first installed in the early 1900's. This set of cottages and garages and mansion is part of the "Goodyears" estate that has changed hands since then. I really cant tell you why there is no Hartford loop based on all of the previous work in the past years, and at this moment I have a feeling that the condensate water from the return lines is being pumped out of the boiler to a waste line... JUST a bit of history here... Recently changed 29 fan coils in the mansion and found old newspapers dated July 10, 1958. I know for a fact that this boiler was originally a Weil Mclain 678, then changed to a Weil Mclain 578, and we just replaced it with another Weil Mclain 578...I will look on Wednesday for the condensate discharge. Many changes have been made to these systems.... Thanks for your interest.... Frank S

[beenthere]

Constant fresh water is a steam boiler killer.

[dandyme]

just a thought, access the highest point of the piping (attic) see if there is a vent there.

[vstech]

condensed steam is distilled water, no chemicals or sediment from that... the fill water will have innumerable additives, and just plain muck. it's NOT good for the boiler, it's VERY BAD to constantly have water entering the boiler.

[knarfoires]

You guys are the best... Thanks for your help and looking out for me!!!!!!!

[knarfoires]

Thanks for the info..... I'm trying to find the problem.... And I wont sleep till its rectified!!!! Thanks again... Frank S

[knarfoires]

Will look into the problem when we get back to the cottage on 12-26..... Thanks again..... Much appreciated.... Frank S.

[knarfoires]

No, I had not thought about vented risers in the attics. If the cottages are both two story, and the seven garages single story, what would be the reason for vent risers in the attic...... Thanks for you concerns and thinking out loud..... Frank S

[AtticAce]

If after everything you still can find no leak, I would check the boiler sections to make sure your leak is not there. A leak between the sections would not be seen due to evaporation. Although I think a 20 gallon leak between sections would have been noticed.

[Shophound]

condensed steam is distilled water, no chemicals or sediment from that... the fill water will have innumerable additives, and just plain muck. it's NOT good for the boiler, it's VERY BAD to constantly have water entering the boiler.

Unless there is regular boiler blowdown, this is correct. I'm a commercial boiler guy; I don't think resi boilers do blowdown, right?

[dandyme]

No, I had not thought about vented risers in the attics. If the cottages are both two story, and the seven garages single story, what would be the reason for vent risers in the attic...... Thanks for you concerns and thinking out loud..... Frank S

can't recall off-hand the purpose of the vents in attics, but you system was originally installed during that era, the boys over to heatinghelp could probably answer the vent question easily

[firecontrol]

Leaks in steam and condensate return lines are sometimes very hard to find if the pipes are covered with insulation and some insulation is worse than others. Steam can leak and evaporate without visible signs through the insulation. The same can happen with condensate return water depending on where the leak is. Some insulation is a very good wicking material and the moisture will evaporate from it without showing you even a wet spot on the outside.

Temperature differences in a length of piping (with insulation on it) is almost always a dead giveaway. A simple infrared thermometer can help pinpoint these leaks. Wherever the leak is that spot in the insulation will be warmer. Of course a thermal imaging device of some sort is even easier and quicker.

[beenthere]

can't recall off-hand the purpose of the vents in attics, but you system was originally installed during that era, the boys over to heatinghelp could probably answer the vent question easily

That was done on hot water systems. Instead of using an expansion tank, and vent would go up to the attic. usually they ran it out side in case of over flow. But not always.

[Joehvac25]

That was done on hot water systems. Instead of using an expansion tank, and vent would go up to the attic. usually they ran it out side in case of over flow. But not always.

That reminds me of the time I replaced an old gravity boiler. I couldn't get the system to hold pressure, I went out to the van for some reason and noticed water shooting out the side of the house. Found the tank in the second floor bathroom and capped it off.

[beenthere]

That reminds me of the time I replaced an old gravity boiler. I couldn't get the system to hold pressure, I went out to the van for some reason and noticed water shooting out the side of the house. Found the tank in the second floor bathroom and capped it off.

LOL, I had been forewarned by the guys that taught me that those types of systems exist. So i was too surprised when I finally ran into one.