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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Mn the state where absolutey nothing is allowed
    Posts
    1,333
    no sweat, i had a brainfart, didnt comprehend what you were saying.

    very very rare but it can happen where a spider nest causes irratic operation, usually they create conplete blockage.

    id still look for whats causing the disruption in the fire tetrahedron. we know there is fuel, oxygen and heat.
    the fourth part of the fire tetrahedron specificaly is reaction. in this context it involves the correct mixing of the first three.

    the OP needs to look for whats keeping that from happening
    my boss thinks its possible to repeal the laws of physics

  2. #15
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Rochester, NY, USA
    Posts
    14,199
    I had a Bryant once that had a spider web in the cross over wings/tubes. They were cleaned, they looked fine. But if you blew through it hard enough the web popped up like a valve. it would NOT do it all the time.

    To clean the cross overs I use a small triangular piece of 30ga sheet metal or if the cross overs are wide enough I use a fingernail file. (Ya if my wife asks, I have no idea how that got in my tool bag )

    who knows, just a suggestion, good luck
    BEING AN ADULT

    is the dumbest thing I have ever done

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    93
    Thanks for all the replies fellas.

    And like I said... after the first series of the unit not firing properly I dismantled the manifold, removed and blew through the orifices and manifold multiple times and found no sort of blockage....

    After reassembly, the next cycle fired only one burner again, and after that trial and reset it fired normally (presumably coincidently) after I adjusted the manifold pressure.

    So we know I likely didn't clear any debris when I disassembled/reassembled.

    It's this series of events that has me confused.

    I'm sure there's some explanation....

    As far as I know the gentleman hasn't called back in. Who knows if maybe I DID clear some debris and it was finally removed the same cycle as when I adjusted the manifold pressure.

    As someone asked before whether or not it was burning normally when it did fire properly.... it all seemed normal up until the single burner firing. Then one of the next cycles (and last before leaving) that did fire "normally" did have some strange ignition like I mentioned before. A delayed, "hard" sort of POOF.... and this was after the gas valve engaged and I could hear gas being released from the manifold for a split second.

    Also to mention, during disassembly/reassembly I did adjust the position of the HSI as it was slightly cocked and away from the burner plate.

    But, due to that delayed ignition and what was observed I believe the gas valve and manifold is doing its job and this is an issue with the crossover rails and/or flame/gas traveling properly. One way or another.

    Now I'm officially bugged and ready to take another wack at this unit....

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    93
    Quote Originally Posted by ch4man View Post
    does the inducer motor have a cooling fan blade??

    ive seen these disrupt ignition and /or crossover.

    carrier had a shield kit for this.....

    call your distributor to see if your model applies.

    not saying, just saying.....................
    Yes I believe it does. Interesting to note...

    Also to mention, this house was a foreclosure and this is the first winter with the h/o living there. For all we know this was a previous ongoing issue.

    My plan of action was to give a call to see if there were any crossover or ignition issue with this unit. Last winter, an unknown defect with a 12 year old Lennox 90%+ had me beating my head against a wall until speaking with a third Lennox rep... haha.

    As well as this year with a brand new Lennox 93%.

    It gets the best of us.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    N. W., IN
    Posts
    1,017
    The thing that has me wondering is the burners all being one assembly when all the Bryants I've seen, including mine, have individual burners. Also for the behavior you describe with burners that appear clean I have taken the tip of a small screwdriver and used it a bit like a prybar in the crossover slot and have broken loose some junk hiding inside there. Just a slight nudge in prying and the slot does'nt grow bigger but just flexes enough to dislodge an obstruction. It's worked for me a lot of times.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    93
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    The thing that has me wondering is the burners all being one assembly when all the Bryants I've seen, including mine, have individual burners. Also for the behavior you describe with burners that appear clean I have taken the tip of a small screwdriver and used it a bit like a prybar in the crossover slot and have broken loose some junk hiding inside there. Just a slight nudge in prying and the slot does'nt grow bigger but just flexes enough to dislodge an obstruction. It's worked for me a lot of times.
    This style of unit, as well as the Carrier counterpart all have that single burner assembly I believe? The burner assembly slides into the burner compartment, one end of the manifold slides into a mount on the edge of the burner box and the other end is secured by two screws. The orifices on the manifold is all what keeps the burner assembly secured basically. If that makes sense. Ring a bell?

    I probably should've paid closer attention to the crossover rail rather than a couple swipes with a wire brush. Once revisited I will surely give the fine-tooth-comb treatment.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan, Canada Occupation:Interprovincial Plumber, Commercial Gasfitter Interests:
    Posts
    2,412
    I seem to remember from a seminar that you have to make sure the manifold hasn't been twisted off axis. ( if that makes sense) there was a picture where the manifold and burners HAD BEEN REMOVED (caps for empahasis) from the furnace and water was being forced through the manifold to prove everything was lined up.
    I love my job, but paydays Thursday

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Twin Cities Minnesota
    Posts
    223
    I have seen closed combustion units do this after HSI installed with after market. Box does'nt seal correctly,swirling combustion air disturbs ignition..,flame sensor shuts down! And it too doesnt act up all the time!

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    93
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicmuffin View Post
    I have seen closed combustion units do this after HSI installed with after market. Box does'nt seal correctly,swirling combustion air disturbs ignition..,flame sensor shuts down! And it too doesnt act up all the time!
    The Lennox 90%+ I mentioned above had a similar problem, except it would NOT ignite via the HSI. Could only get it to light manually with open flame. Swirling combustion air...

    Except this Bryant unit in question is just your run-of-the-mill 80%. I'm wondering if the IDF cooling fan could be creating the issue like someone mentioned above. I'm going to be contacting the distributor/manufacturer to see if there's an issue with this unit and an upgrade kit available.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    5,386
    Quote Originally Posted by ComfortablyNumb View Post
    I'm going to be contacting the distributor/manufacturer to see if there's an issue with this unit and an upgrade kit available.
    Put an email address in your profile, or send me an email (address is in my profile), and I will forward back the only bulletin I know of relating to this issue.

    I don't post technical info in this "OPEN" Tech to Tech Forum.
    Instead of learning the tricks of the trade, learn the trade.

  11. #24
    Also inspect that the cross over flame is not obstructed

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Chicago Area
    Posts
    29
    had seen the spider web before was a white web that completly clogged the first tube preventing any gas to HSI. another time had cleaned and brushed burner assembly and still had the problem then removed and blew out with co2 pressure that fixed the problem.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    California
    Posts
    87
    I've ran into this before, and called my service manager for advice. He said to run a razor blade through the crossover tubes, sometimes during original installation or unit manufacture tiny pieces of metal can become lodged in there. Did what he said and the system fired from one burner to the next no problem, and as far as I'm aware, the customer hasn't called back.

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