What Should a Good HVAC School Teach

[Joehvac25]

Around here I get lots of work from bubba, when he sells a furnace changeout for under 1550 and above 1350 how the hell do you compete. The trick is don't, find customers who want to pay for quality work.

[allenrobinson2269]

Exactly. I won't waste my time on low-end jobs. I don't know what the requirements are for HVAC installation are in NJ. Most things here are tightly regulated and you have to be qualified to do any work here. I know you can paint and install drywall and other non-skilled jobs, but those are mostly done by illegals for bottom dollar. I can get plenty of cheap labor for that type of work and will keep painters and drywall guys on call in the event the customer needs those jobs done, but I want to concentrate on only the skilled portion of construction as HVAC applies. I am interested in the science and skill of a trade and can afford to work cheap for an established journeyman to learn skills. I have no problem paying my dues for ten years. I am 43 and plan to have an established company by the time I am 55. And I won't undercut myself.
This is the best advice I have seen on this site. Bubba work won't cut it in the long run.

[beenthere]

You might be surprised to find out how ow the install prices are on RNC. And often commercial isn't any better.

[allenrobinson2269]

Timebuilder. Practicality would rule out waiting till 70 to start a business. I believe I can do it in seven years. I am creating a sound business model based upon education and experience in various disiplines. Frankly I could go to law or medical school in less than four years. I think the belief that it would take as long to learn about HVAC is really underestimating yourself.
So the question should be; if you were to do it again what would you do to have a more sound business model and what mistakes have you made that I should avoid. That would be exceptionally good information and would save me a great deal of time.

[allenrobinson2269]

I am as interested in the challenge of running an HVAC business as I am in the science and technology. This is why I have no desire or interest in spending a "career" working for someone else.
I would recomended to anyone who feels underpaid to get more training, take more test and work more hours and stop working for someone who only pays low wages. Union scale in NJ is $37.50 for a journeyman. If you are working for less then you need to start looking around. I have never seen time spent on education as a waste.

[2sac]

You want to own a business so you can pass it on to your son? He's 3. What makes you think he'll want to be in the trades? I worked at a previous shop for 8 years. Neither of the owners kids wanted anything to do with hvac/r. He wanted to retire and I almost purchased the shop, but we couldn't agree on terms. He's pushing 70 and is still stuck with the shop because of his stubborness, and his physical health is failing. I don't think that was his retirement plan, but it's become his reality. Food for thought.

[timebuilder]

I'm not saying that what you want is impossible, but I am struck by your overconfidence about it.

I think that overconfidence could be your undoing.

Now, if all you want to do is to go into people's homes and convince them that they need a new system, and use minimum wage workers to slap a system in while you regard yourself as a business owner, well, that is a model that many companies use. It is also one of the reasons that big box stores have gotten into HVAC sales.

Properly diagnosing and repairing a system is much more subtle AND challenging. If you had spent a few years here reading posts by guys who do this work, you would realize 1) how poorly the trade is taught in most places, and 2) how poorly the science is understood by many technicians.

While you and I are are possibly capable of the same choices of employment by background and education, I am the one who has been doing this work for many, many years, and I can tell you that your plan lacks that insight from experience. I think you are imagining that this is less challenging from a technical/customer service/management standpoint than it really is.

The bottom line is the type of company you are imagining. If you are imagining a conventional residential HVAC company, I hope you are the Ace of Sales. If that's the case, hire a service manger and couple of techs today, and forego the schooling entirely. Let them run the technical and you can get out the Big Rake.

[Cooked]

............I think the belief that it would take as long to learn about HVAC is really underestimating yourself..............

Don't kid yourself. HVAC, especially the heavy commercial side is without any doubt the most complicated of any building trade sans architecture. Ten years to become proficient is generous

[allenrobinson2269]

Don't kid yourself. HVAC, especially the heavy commercial side is without any doubt the most complicated of any building trade sans architecture. Ten years to become proficient is generous

If this is the case then why do people enter this field rather than becoming an accountant or attorney? It seems like the learning curve in a profession is less than half of what it is to learn to build and repair AC systems. I know that the county trade school I am entering will take anyone who is over 16 and has left school for whatever reason. Could it be that a lot of the people who attempt to enter this trade are uneducated to the point of being incapable of success in any field. Of course I don’t believe education is a requirement for success. Neither my grandmother or grandfather on my dad’s side graduated high school, but they had an exceptionally successful life and ended up being somewhat gentile small town business owners.
One other question; can anyone here explain what a masterpiece is and why a masterpiece isn’t required prior to someone going out and operating a business on their own?
The way I understand it, there is no trade association or government licensing required to install and fix HVAC systems. There is not propriety on tools of the trade and no local requirements set forth by those in the trade, restricting the entry into practice by new tradesmen. So if this is the case is HVAC a trade or has it been reduced to an odd job?
Would getting an engineering degree be profitable more quickly than becoming an HVAC designer and technician.
Another idea would be to get basic skills and then operate in an area as long as you could until you can’t get work for whatever reason and then move on. While the experience one gains this way may not be the best for the customer, it is experience non-the –less. Sooner or later you will have made enough mistakes to know how to do it right and then you will be competent enough to get work in one area and can settle there. Just an idea; If you do it this way you can pretty well under cut everyone in the area. I’m retired and have a pension. I can afford to undercut anyone any time. I don’t need to work to pay bills and eat. I just need some type of business to run to keep me sane. Of course business success allows for increased income and, while a wealth of knowledge is most important, I’m not opposed to obtaining other kinds.

[beenthere]

There are people that have doing something wrong for 30 years, and still don't know they are doing it wrong. So what makes you think you would learn to do something right because you did it wrong X number of times.

Since you said you can afford to under bid anybody. One of the courses you should take is a business course.

[allenrobinson2269]

Frankly it seems that mediocracy is where the profit is. If I can make money doing it wrong for 30 years then that works too. I am interested in profit. If that is based in quality that is fine. If not that's fine too. Besides everything here is generally replaced rather than repaired. Tear it out and do it again and of course blame a mistake on someone else.

[2sac]

If your true motive is profit at any cost, why not become a pawn broker?

[allenrobinson2269]

That's funny. My first job when I was 14 was pawn broking in Longview, Texas. That is actuall a tough business with a steep learning curve. You are essentially a banker.

[timebuilder]

Frankly it seems that mediocracy is where the profit is. If I can make money doing it wrong for 30 years then that works too. I am interested in profit. If that is based in quality that is fine. If not that's fine too. Besides everything here is generally replaced rather than repaired. Tear it out and do it again and of course blame a mistake on someone else.

May I suggest to you that you run for President against the republican nominee in 2016? Your approach is certainly welcome among folks like Axlerod and Emanuel.

[timebuilder]

There are people that have doing something wrong for 30 years, and still don't know they are doing it wrong. So what makes you think you would learn to do something right because you did it wrong X number of times.

Since you said you can afford to under bid anybody. One of the courses you should take is a business course.

Nah, he should just skip any kind of schooling and just lie to people. He can call his company Hacks R Us.

[Joehvac25]

Nah, he should just skip any kind of schooling and just lie to people. He can call his company Hacks R Us.

Tb he might get sued for that, may have to go with hacks is us.

Maybe pick a business that people lives and wallet aren't at stake. This trade is very rewarding if you have some skill and passion, if your going to be a hack then what's the point? When I stand back and look at my boiler jobs it gives me a sense of pride that I took a pile of parts and pipe and made what I like to think of as art. I would have have up a long time ago if I didn't somewhat enjoy what I do.

[timebuilder]

This is why I told him he has to love the work.

Maybe working for the government has suppressed his center of morality. Remember, the government is its own "god," and it demands that we worship it with taxes.

Sort of like ancient Rome.

[Joehvac25]

This is why I told him he has to love the work.

Maybe working for the government has suppressed his center of morality. Remember, the government is its own "god," and it demands that we worship it with taxes.

Sort of like ancient Rome.

You got that right! I see the don't give a crap workmanship every day and I can't stand it, then here's a guy who openly admits to care less as long as he is making money. I thin I would find it hard to look someone in the face after I screwed them over.

[T.J.]

i dont know. something just doesn't seem right about the O.P.

i think y'all are being trolled

[timebuilder]

i dont know. something just doesn't seem right about the O.P.

i think y'all are being trolled

I would like to think you are right.

It does seem odd that the OP asked, "what should an HVAC school teach?"

Maybe the answer is "respect," for yourself, your trade, and your clients.

That answer might not make sense to a former government guy.