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  1. #1119
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    Since you CCW guys know lot of stats here is a question for you: What percatage of time is a CCW Holder able to draw his weapon and certail an event vs. how many times is he surprised by a gunman and not able to draw his weapon safely.

    My point being that it is rare a CCW Holder will ever experience a gun related crime in his proximity and it even rarer that he will be able to draw his weapon safely and it’s rare that he will have the stability to overcome the adrenalin rush to aim safely. Seems the odds are stacked against him but as we all know, they pull it off sometimes.

  2. #1120
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    Go back in time and ask the citizens of Northfield Minnesota would they want a "do-over" with the James/ Younger bank robbery but this time disarm the citizens. BTW, it was armed citizens that destroyed this gang and essentially stopped gang bank robberies in that area for awhile.

    When you look at the bank robbers of the '30s, they were motivated by a Great Depression brought on by government interference in banking and commerce and a populace apathetic about protecting those evil banks, who were in the process of taking homes and farms. People sometimes cheered for the robbers when they "stuck it to the man" in modern parlance. The robbers figured out one thing very quickly--control through superior firepower. They dominated the scene with Thompson submachine guns, shotguns and stolen BAR's, the last two being the preferred weapons of one notorious murdering bisexual robber named Clyde Barrow. It took BAR's in an ambush to shoot through his car and kill Bonnie and Clyde, which signaled the willingness of law enforcement to match the firepower of the gangs. Then things settled down.

    From Wiki on "bank robbery", note their take on conditions in the UK, Australia, and NZ: "Martin Kemp, in a BBC documentary, once inquired on the effectiveness of an Uzi in a bank robbery, to which the firearms training instructor joked "that would be sixty-four pieces of evidence to convict you." The sawn-off shotgun, a common robbery weapon in United Kingdom, Australia and New Zealand where handguns are difficult to obtain, are easily concealable but not particularly effective."

  3. #1121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    Since you CCW guys know lot of stats here is a question for you: What percatage of time is a CCW Holder able to draw his weapon and certail an event vs. how many times is he surprised by a gunman and not able to draw his weapon safely.

    My point being that it is rare a CCW Holder will ever experience a gun related crime in his proximity and it even rarer that he will be able to draw his weapon safely and it’s rare that he will have the stability to overcome the adrenalin rush to aim safely. Seems the odds are stacked against him but as we all know, they pull it off sometimes.
    You're projecting your insecurity's, on those of us that do choose to carry. If you revert back to your training, you stay in total control of your emotions No adrenalin dump.
    But I try not to put myself in "those" type situations in the first place. Situational awareness is an essential part of life. At least in mine it is.

  4. #1122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    So the M-16 was not designed with any superior or specialized functions? It’s a rifle just like any other?
    no, the M-16 is a military rifle that is fully automatic fire. It also shoots the 5.56cal projectile. Not a .223cal, when you pull the trigger, bullets come out as long as you hold the trigger down

    The commercial modern sporting rifle, AR-15, is a semi-automatic rifle that only shoots one projectile with one squeeze of the trigger and shoots the .223cal projectile.

    The AR-10 is a modern commercial sporting rifle that is a semi-automatic rifle that shoots the .308cal projectile

    The AR-10 is far more powerful that the AR-15 or the M-16.

    There is a huge difference between these three rifles.

    First: 556 is a military cartridge. You CAN NOT shoot a 556 through a .223 rifle, the pressure from the 556 is about 11,000psi higher than 223, the 223 will not be able to stand the pressure for long. You CAN shoot a 223, through a 556 weapon with no adverse affects.

    second: big difference between a fully automatic rifle and semi-automatic rifle, rate of fire being chief among these

    Third. Magazine capacity is a moot point and irrelevant to the discussion. Give me five 10 round magz and I'll show you how fast I can change them.
    I only drink a little, but when I do
    I turn into another person and THAT person drinks a lot

  5. #1123
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    Quote Originally Posted by the dangling wrangler View Post
    An M-16 is not the same as an AR-15. But, they do 'look" smiler.






    Regarding Gun Control: What is an “Assault Rifle?”



    Earl Griffin
    December 22, 2012

    I am more familiar with firearms than the average person. I sold them for a living for several years. I worked as a Peace Officer. I have trained on many firing ranges under the tutelage of men and woman whose instruction was of great value. I grew up hunting and shooting relationally with my late father and with my granddad. I have had an opportunity to become intimately familiar with the function and workings of a wide variety of firearms.
    photoThe AR15 is made of modern materials and because of that its detractors like to say it is something that it is not.

    There is a falsehood being perpetrated upon the public. You see an “Assault Rifle,” has what is known as a selector switch. This switch allows the shooter to change the weapons function from semi automatic (like a hunting gun) to rapid fire or in some cases auto fire. Rapid fire allows the weapon to fire a burst of three rounds. Auto fire allows it to continue to fire so long as the trigger is depressed.

    This is important: An AR15 is NOT an “Assault Rifle.”

    It’s Military counterpart, the M16 IS an “Assault Rifle.”

    The AR15 is made of modern materials and because of that its detractors like to say it is something that it is not. The AR15 is NOT an “Assault Rifle.”

    The term “Assault Rifle,” is a value loaded term much like “Terrorism,” Those who wish to manipulate public sentiment like to use these kinds of terms to sway the opinions of those who don’t really know much about the topic but who love their families and want things to get “better.”

    Better often means a further roll back of our Constitutional freedoms. Rolling back freedom is never better.

    Here is something to think about: The AR15 is just another semi automatic firearm, much like a 12 gauge shotgun used for bird hunting or a semi automatic hunting rifle used for deer. It is not at all unlike a boy’s .22 caliber rifle used for squirrel or rabbit hunting.

    The big difference is that it is made of modern materials instead of wood. If you allow the proponents of gun control to describe every semi automatic rifle (and shotguns – it is the same action) then the next step in this nefarious exercise will be to ban ALL semi automatic rifles and shotguns – that means your hunting weapons. It also means your family heirlooms passed down from granddad or dad.

    In conclusion let me repeat: The AR15 is just another semi automatic rifle with a fancy stock made of modern materials. It is not a “Machine Gun,” or an “Assault Rifle.” No amount of describing it this way will change this.

    People who use those terms either don’t know what an “Assault Rifle” really is or they are perpetrating a mean spirited falsehood designed ultimately to rob you of your 2nd Amendment rights.

    Do your own homework. Do your own thinking. Don’t get carried away by emotion as doing so makes it easier for others to exert control over you.

    Protect every word of the Constitution. Stand firm against those who would see your rights curtailed. They will not be satisfied until there is no Second Amendment.
    If the term “assault riffle” is being incorrectly used then maybe we need a new term to describe what the media is calling an assault rifle. You want to say it is no different than most hunting rifles but we know that is not true.

    Features that describe an assault rifle in the eyes of the media are:

    Short
    Nimble
    Lightweight
    Pistol grip to avoid climbing.
    Large magazines.
    Medium caliber to avoid recoil during multiple firing.
    But not necessarily fully auto.

    Sure these features can be used for advantages on a hunting rifles but so would using a machine gun or a 50 cal mounted on top of your truck. These features also specialize in in-close combat particularly when shooting humans in an urban environment.

    The only feature a gun designer uses is not fully auto or not. There are a lot of other features that go into an assault rifle. I’m sure your list would be a lot longer than mine.

  6. #1124
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    If the agents of a corrupt government are allowed to carry "assault weapons" and the 2nd Amendment was intended to allow me to guard against a corrupt government then by definition, I should be allowed to match their technology and firepower to protect the Constitution. The PEOPLE are the ultimate law enforcement in this republic--the cops and army are hired domestic help and can be fired as can their managers (politicians).

  7. #1125
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    Quote Originally Posted by the dangling wrangler View Post
    You're projecting your insecurity's, on those of us that do choose to carry. If you revert back to your training, you stay in total control of your emotions No adrenalin dump.
    But I try not to put myself in "those" type situations in the first place. Situational awareness is an essential part of life. At least in mine it is.
    But what percentage of CCW Holders are trained?

  8. #1126
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcDk85ZOJUQ

    Just another recent case where a gun saved lives yet you don't hear about this case in the national media. Also note he is a repeat offender let out by scumbag liberal judges.

  9. #1127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    Since you CCW guys know lot of stats here is a question for you: What percatage of time is a CCW Holder able to draw his weapon and certail an event vs. how many times is he surprised by a gunman and not able to draw his weapon safely.

    My point being that it is rare a CCW Holder will ever experience a gun related crime in his proximity and it even rarer that he will be able to draw his weapon safely and it’s rare that he will have the stability to overcome the adrenalin rush to aim safely. Seems the odds are stacked against him but as we all know, they pull it off sometimes.
    Every year, people in the United States use guns to defend themselves against criminals an estimated 2,500,000 times – more than 6,500 people a day, or once every 13 seconds. Of these instances, 15.7% of the people using firearms defensively stated that they "almost certainly" saved their lives by doing so.

    Firearms are used 60 times more often to protect lives than to take lives.

    Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Kleck and Gertz, Fall 1995

    and this information is from 1995, there are significantly more firearms in private hands today.

    The number of times per year an American uses a firearm to deter a home invasion alone is 498,000.

    In 83.5% (2,087,500) of these successful gun defenses, the attacker either threatened or used force first, proving that guns are very well suited for self-defense.

    Estimating intruder-related firearm retrievals in U.S. households, 1994. Robin M. Ikeda , Violence and Victims, Winter 1997

    The rate of defensive gun use (DGU) is six times that of criminal gun use.

    Crime statistics: Bureau of Justice Statistics - National Crime Victimization Survey (2005). DGU statistics: Targeting Guns, Kleck (average of 15 major surveys where DGUs were reported)


    I personally have used my firearm 4 times in the last 12 years to prevent some dumb from committing a crime. I never fired a shot in three of them and one I never even drew the weapon.
    I only drink a little, but when I do
    I turn into another person and THAT person drinks a lot

  10. #1128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    But what percentage of CCW Holders are trained?
    What is the number of untrained persons who actually fired a firearm for legal self defense purposes but accidentally hit a "good guy"? I actually think some basic training in firearms safety is good but when debating this issue, I don't see where it has statistically been proven to affect the incidence of collateral damage/ injury from friendly fire.

  11. #1129
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    I guess I'd be nervous of guns too, if I lived in CA.
    A bunch of stoner's running around with guns & ammo is a scary thought.

  12. #1130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    But what percentage of CCW Holders are trained?
    Definitely not enough, is my opinion.

  13. #1131
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    I'd hate to live where this happened. Forced to defend yourself with a knife. I guess it's better than nothing.

    http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/video?id=8947197


    Oh, wait a minute, she lives in CA!

    Her "training " must have kicked in. Good for her.

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