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  1. #1015
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Boise, ID
    Posts
    4,271
    A broken criminal justice system plays a major role IMHO. If our prisons were like third world counties (prison systems) instead of country club retreats to buff up and still run your drug and gang business there would most likely be less people so inclined to get out and continue their criminal activities. And for the record, that means execute those that deserve it, and do so expeditiously.
    If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what will never be. (Thomas Jefferson 1816)

  2. #1016
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    East tx
    Posts
    164
    I don't need to, but it is a right given to me by the 2nd amendment, it is also my choice to own guns for various reasons. Hunting,personal defense, recreational events, and the most important reason of all...because i can!!!

  3. #1017
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Rochester, NY, USA
    Posts
    14,305
    Quote Originally Posted by AStudent View Post
    I'm gonna open a can of worms with this one and for the record I'm not for taking away your guns.

    It's just kind of funny that a lot of people are claiming that the areas of the United States where we have the strictest gun laws have the most gun related homicide rates which is true, but is it really due to there being fewer legal gun owners, or is that just one of the contributing factors?

    China for example has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the world, what's really surprising is their total homicide rate is only a few hundred a year above ours and they have four times as many people as we do.

    Japan has intense gun laws that we would consider very strict....where are they on the gun related homicide map? Near the bottom. In 2008 japan had 11 homicides , we had nearly 10,000.

    Now I realize there are other countries who have strict gun laws that have high gun related homicides...my point is not to put down guns.

    What is different about our society, what makes us a deadly people?

    There are endless amounts of factors that determine why a specific area has more or fewer crimes... and while legal ownership of guns is one of them, we cannot base a locations crime rate on gun ownership alone.
    you do make valid points. Lets look at the Japanese society. It is build on Honor and discipline. Education is extremely high, In Japan, the total murder rate is almost 1 per 100,000. In the U.S., there are about 3.2 murders per 100,000 people each year by weapons other than firearms. This means that even if firearms in the U.S. could be eliminated, the U.S. would still have three times the murder rate of the Japanese. Whereas Japan’s murder rate may be low, its suicide rate is over 20 per 100,000 people. Combined, Japanese are being murdered and committing suicide at a rate of about 21 per 100,000. In the U.S., our combined murder and suicide rate is also about 21.
    Japan data: 1996 Demographic Yearbook, United Nations, 1998; US data: FBI Uniform Crime Statistics, 1996.

    the top ten countries with the highest Homicide rate per 100,000 citizens. The United States is not even in the top 10.

    Colombia...62
    Jamaica...32
    Russia...20
    Mexico...13
    Estonia...10
    Latvia...10
    Lithuania...10
    Belarus...9
    Papua New Guinea...8
    Kyrgyzstan...8
    United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, Centre for International Crime Prevention, Seventh United Nations Survey of Crime Trends and Operations of Criminal Justice Systems, covering the period 1998 – 2000.

    A ten year Australian study has concluded that firearm confiscation had no effect on crime rates
    Gun Laws and Sudden Death: Did the Australian Firearms Legislation of 1996 Make a Difference?, Dr. Jeanine Baker and Dr. Samara McPhedran, British Journal of Criminology, November 2006.

    Despite having much stricter gun control than New Zealand (including a near ban on handguns) firearm homicides in both countries track one another over 25 years, indicating that gun control is not a control variable.
    Firearm Homicide in Australia, Canada, and New Zealand: What Can We Learn From Long- Term International Comparisons?, Samara McPhedran, Jeanine Baker, and Pooja Singh, Journal of Interpersonal Violence, March 16, 2010


    I could post a boat load of facts on Homicide rates per capita, but I think you get the point. But we really only need to look at Chicago, NYC and Washington DC. These cities have THE MOST strict gun laws and the HIGHEST homicide rates. How can anyone argue with those facts. Criminals are far more concerned with running into an armed citizen than a police officer. (I have verifiable citations for that claim to)
    The Last four letters


    American = I Can, Republican = I Can, Democrats = Rats


    any questions

  4. #1018
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    3,219
    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post
    damn, three armed guys.. I sure hope they didn't hurt anyone.
    Nobody got hurt. I was writing out my deposit slip when a guy with a halloween mask on nudged me. I thought it was a joke so i kept on writing. Then he nudged me again & I was staring right into the barrel of a gun. That's when I realized it was no joke. There was about 4 customers & 4 bank workers in there at the time. The funny thing is my daughter was dating the son of the banks security administrator & she recognized me from the footage of the robbery. You'd be surprised at the things that go through your head in a situation like that. In the end they just got the money & took off. The whole ordeal probably lasted less than 5 minutes.
    Gary
    -----------
    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    An engineer designs what he would never work on.
    A technician works on what he would never design.

  5. #1019
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    1,268
    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post

    you do make valid points. Lets look at the Japanese society. It is build on Honor and discipline. Education is extremely high, In Japan, the total murder rate is almost 1 per 100,000. In the U.S., there are about 3.2 murders per 100,000 people each year by weapons other than firearms.38 This means that even if firearms in the U.S. could be eliminated, the U.S. would still have three times the murder rate of the Japanese. Whereas Japan's murder rate may be low, its suicide rate is over 20 per 100,000 people. Combined, Japanese are being murdered and committing suicide at a rate of about 21 per 100,000. In the U.S., our combined murder and suicide rate is also about 21.
    Japan data: 1996 Demographic Yearbook, United Nations, 1998; US data: FBI Uniform Crime Statistics, 1996.

    the top ten countries with the highest Homicide rate per 100,000 citizens. The United States is not even in the top 10.
    Colombia...62
    Jamaica...32
    Russia...20
    Mexico...13
    Estonia...10
    Latvia...10
    Lithuania...10
    Belarus...9
    Papua New Guinea...8
    Kyrgyzstan...8
    United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, Centre for International Crime Prevention, Seventh United Nations Survey of Crime Trends and Operations of Criminal Justice Systems, covering the period 1998 - 2000.

    A ten year Australian study has concluded that firearm confiscation had no effect on crime rates
    Gun Laws and Sudden Death: Did the Australian Firearms Legislation of 1996 Make a Difference?, Dr. Jeanine Baker and Dr. Samara McPhedran, British Journal of Criminology, November 2006.

    Despite having much stricter gun control than New Zealand (including a near ban on handguns) firearm homicides in both countries track one another over 25 years, indicating that gun control is not a control variable.
    Firearm Homicide in Australia, Canada, and New Zealand: What Can We Learn From Long- Term International Comparisons?, Samara McPhedran, Jeanine Baker, and Pooja Singh, Journal of Interpersonal Violence, March 16, 2010

    I could post a boat load of facts on Homicide rates per capita, but I think you get the point. But we really only need to look at Chicago, NYC and Washington DC. These cities have THE MOST strict gun laws and the HIGHEST homicide rates. How can anyone argue with those facts. Criminals are far more concerned with running into an armed citizen than a police officer. (I have verifiable citations for that claim to)
    Never mind.

  6. #1020
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Rochester, NY, USA
    Posts
    14,305
    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    Nobody got hurt. I was writing out my deposit slip when a guy with a halloween mask on nudged me. I thought it was a joke so i kept on writing. Then he nudged me again & I was staring right into the barrel of a gun. That's when I realized it was no joke. There was about 4 customers & 4 bank workers in there at the time. The funny thing is my daughter was dating the son of the banks security administrator & she recognized me from the footage of the robbery. You'd be surprised at the things that go through your head in a situation like that. In the end they just got the money & took off. The whole ordeal probably lasted less than 5 minutes.

    did they ever catch the guys? I carry a gun and I would have pooped my pants. and to be honest, I doubt I would have done anything with 3 guys there. Unless it turned into a hostage situation, then I might THINK about doing something if the opportunity arose.
    The Last four letters


    American = I Can, Republican = I Can, Democrats = Rats


    any questions

  7. #1021
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Rochester, NY, USA
    Posts
    14,305
    so you think you DON'T need a gun, or they are not useful in self-defense?

    these folks may disagree with you:

    http://libertyandsuch.com/10-cases-o...se-in-11-days/
    The Last four letters


    American = I Can, Republican = I Can, Democrats = Rats


    any questions

  8. #1022
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    3,219
    I really don't think gun violence today has anything to do with the laws for purchasing or owning a gun.
    Its more like how crime has evolved. I grew up in a pretty tough area in Philadelphia for a while & then we moved to a little better area. I hung out with a bad crowd in my youth & we did some things I'm not proud of but we never used guns. We had our crews that hung out on the corners & being tough with your hands was what counted. We didn't use guns when we had a rumble between corners. There might be a knife or a pipe but for the most part it was hand to hand. Gun laws were more lax then but not as many people felt the need for them. Things have changed & now instead of hands its guns. The point I'm trying to make is that its not the guns that are the problem but the mentality of the criminals today that is the problem. Guns have always been available but they just were not used as much in crime. So now gun free zones are just an invitation for the criminal to go unchallenged in his quest for whatever his sick mind seeks.
    Gary
    -----------
    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    An engineer designs what he would never work on.
    A technician works on what he would never design.

  9. #1023
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    521
    Well said.

  10. #1024
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    3,219
    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post
    did they ever catch the guys? I carry a gun and I would have pooped my pants. and to be honest, I doubt I would have done anything with 3 guys there. Unless it turned into a hostage situation, then I might THINK about doing something if the opportunity arose.
    They did catch the guys but it was probably a few weeks to a month later. In that situation I think it was best not to do anything because the risk was too great & it seemed pretty obvious they wanted to get the money & get out as quick as possible. Being unarmed there really wasn't anything I could do but even if I was armed I don't think it would have been smart to do anything under the circumstances. Money can be easily replaced but life can't.
    Gary
    -----------
    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    An engineer designs what he would never work on.
    A technician works on what he would never design.

  11. #1025
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    7,813
    Back in the 80s..... I was going camping one weekend and I decided I was going to cash in a coffee can of quarters I had for some spending money.... went to the bank.....asked the gal for a bunch of quarter rolls and instead of telling me why she couldnt or wouldnt give me any she said that she didnt have any...... Boy that pissed me off....

    Anyhow.... I then replied..... "Well then just give me all the money in your drawer".....

    Big mistake..... she fainted...... I ran.....lol

    They got my tag number but didnt catch me and later on in the afternoon at work they said that the my home had called and said the police were looking for me...... I called the police and turned myself in..... they came and got me and kept me at the police station for hours that evening..... half the cops laughing their asses off and half of them wanting to throw me under the jail.

    They finally let me go, couldnt ever go onto that banks property again.
    YOU SHALL REAP WHAT YOU HAVE _______ SOWN

  12. #1026
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,265
    Over a thousand posts on this thread and only one of the conservs here is willing to at least consider a compromise to some type of certification prior to purchasing a semi automatic firearm.

    Because of this unwillingness to give an inch the government IS going to ban these weapons sooner rather then later.

    I guess you all think you won something here.

    When the fact is your inability or unwillingness to compromise is going to ultimately cost you your guns.

    Not a one of you is smart enough to realize that because you won the forum battle here in the end you are going to lose the war.

    Good luck keeping those precious guns

    You are going to need it.

  13. #1027
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Kaufman county, Texas
    Posts
    10,082
    Quote Originally Posted by mcjo tech View Post
    Over a thousand posts on this thread and only one of the conservs here is willing to at least consider a compromise to some type of certification prior to purchasing a semi automatic firearm.

    Because of this unwillingness to give an inch the government IS going to ban these weapons sooner rather then later.

    I guess you all think you won something here.

    When the fact is your inability or unwillingness to compromise is going to ultimately cost you your guns.

    Not a one of you is smart enough to realize that because you won the forum battle here in the end you are going to lose the war.

    Good luck keeping those precious guns

    You are going to need it.
    Dear goat cheese MC, go re-read your own post...

    You just stated the agenda was to ban guns 'sooner or later'. And no, we are not willing to give an inch so you can take a mile. Giving up a portion of our gun rights is not a 'compromise', that is a 'partial defeat'. Unacceptable.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

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