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  1. #716
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
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    Dacula, GA
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    12,566
    Quote Originally Posted by AStudent View Post
    The cop....may have just got off a call where someone got shot, apparently he had been dealing with this girl all night.

    The officer did not follow protocol in many ways, but it's really hard to judge someone who puts their life on the line everyday and sees some gruesome things.

    Wouldn't you say Mr. Vietnam? Didn't you come home to people that had no idea what you had been through judging you?
    Funny you ask? I was bitter at those commie loving hippies who protested me. Us Nam vets could only talk to each other and some of our friends who felt the same way we did. I just wanted to blow them all away. I felt like I'd rather take out these commie lovers at home more than the N Vietnam soldiers who were forced down to South Vietnam to fight us. Most of them weren't commies just forced to do what they were told.

    I volunteered for Nam. I thought it was the thing to do to stop the commies from taking over the world through invasion one country at a time. We were screwed by some commie loving Dems and then by LBJ who didn't want us to win just fight without winning and with one arm tied.

    Like no strategic bombing of N Vietnam. 90%of all the bombs were dropped in S Vietnam not the North. We could have won quickly and easily but LBJ dragged it out then America got tired of it and we let the commies win. That is how I see it. took me 10 years to get over it and let it go. I was a mental basket case till then. Thank you, thank you very much
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."
    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."
    Barry Goldwater

  2. #717
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    1,268
    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post

    Funny you ask? I was bitter at those commie loving hippies who protested me. Us Nam vets could only talk to each other and some of our friends who felt the same way we did. I just wanted to blow them all away. I felt like I'd rather take out these commie lovers at home more than the N Vietnam soldiers who were forced down to South Vietnam to fight us. Most of them weren't commies just forced to do what they were told.

    I volunteered for Nam. I thought it was the thing to do to stop the commies from taking over the world through invasion one country at a time. We were screwed by some commie loving Dems and then by LBJ who didn't want us to win just fight without winning and with one arm tied.

    Like no strategic bombing of N Vietnam. 90%of all the bombs were dropped in S Vietnam not the North. We could have won quickly and easily but LBJ dragged it out then America got tired of it and we let the commies win. That is how I see it. took me 10 years to get over it and let it go. I was a mental basket case till then. Thank you, thank you very much
    No Glenn... thank you very much.

  3. #718
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,265
    Just more douch bag rag opinion articles vomiting out biased right wing propaganda.

    Nothing more.

  4. #719
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    25,556
    Another question about the mcjo "solution"

    What liability do the trainers/gun permit "judges" have in this?

    If they erroneously issue a permit and that person snaps and commits a crime, is the trainer held liable?

    What additional training (besides basic firearms knowledge and skills) do these trainers have?


    Let's get serious about this so-called solution.

    I think it's a fair idea on the surface, but when you start thinking a little more about it, it starts falling apart, I think.


    Brian, I'm waiting for your expanded ideas on this whole issue. Please enlighten me.

  5. #720
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,265
    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    Another question about the mcjo "solution"

    What liability do the trainers/gun permit "judges" have in this?

    If they erroneously issue a permit and that person snaps and commits a crime, is the trainer held liable?

    What additional training (besides basic firearms knowledge and skills) do these trainers have?


    Let's get serious about this so-called solution.

    I think it's a fair idea on the surface, but when you start thinking a little more about it, it starts falling apart, I think.


    Brian, I'm waiting for your expanded ideas on this whole issue. Please enlighten me.
    Another valid concern regarding such a requirement for certification.

    Remember that to have a case they would need tom prove they were negligent in issuing the certification

    I would believe that if it were a panel then that would be best to limit liability

    A fee would also be involved for such training and certification as well as being approved to grant the certification to someone.

    As long as due diligence was taken by the certifying organization and the completion of the certification is standardized I see no difference then someone who teaches a individual to drive as far as their libility if someone they taught gets in an accident.

    I think this should address your question but I am sure those who want to find fault with it will soon chime in and use it as an excuse to not do it.

    And as in other businesses a insurance policy could be purchased for those who do the certification.

    A question:

    Is there any libility to those who certify someone for a concealed weapons permit?

  6. #721
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    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcjo tech View Post
    Another valid concern regarding such a requirement for certification.

    I would believe that if it were a panel then that would be best to limit liability

    A fee would also be involved for such training and certification as well as being approved to grant the certification to someone.

    As long as due diligence was taken by the certifying organization and the completion of the certification is standardized I see no difference then someone who teaches a individual to drive as far as their libility if someone they taught gets in an accident.

    I think this should address your question but I am sure those who want to find fault with it will soon chime in and use it as an excuse to not do it.

    And as in other businesses a insurance policy could be purchased for those who do the certification.

    A question:

    Is there any libility to those who certify someone for a concealed weapons permit?
    My state has no training requirement for a CCW permit.

    I'm unaware of any liability taken on by firearms trainers currently, but since we're expanding their responsibilities...

  7. #722
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,265
    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    My state has no training requirement for a CCW permit.

    I'm unaware of any liability taken on by firearms trainers currently, but since we're expanding their responsibilities...


    I don't believe that there would be a issue of legal liability regarding the certification process as long as standard guidelines where instituted and followed.

  8. #723
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
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    3,377
    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    Brian, I'm waiting for your expanded ideas on this whole issue. Please enlighten me.
    I don' think I can enlighten you but here goes:

    This issue does not have one or two right approaches. It has many. So when I see the NRA stand up and push mainly two, armed guards at schools and mental screening, they fell way short of what needs to be done. And if they did not have the time to go into all their other thoughts they should have released an in-depth list of all changes that need to be done. As far as I know they have not.

    Citizens, like Adam Lanza’s neighbors, as well as police need to get involved with policing guns. If Lanza’s neighbors knew those guns were in close proximity to that nutcase I’d like for the authorities to be able to be called out to make certain those guns were not within his reach, IOW locked up. If police can be called out for welts on a child back or for a guy crawling through a window or for a hazardous condition in someone’s front yard they should be able to demand the securing of guns. Not only when guns are in the proximity of unstable people but when left unsecured when you are out of the house.

    We supply a lot of nutbags and criminals these guns either from not trusting/knowing those close to us or from theft. I’d like to see it be a criminal offense for having guns stolen from the home or car resulting in them not being secured properly. If you want to keep a gun in your nightstand and it gets stolen, you pay the criminal negligence price for supplying the black market.

    There are far more of us than there are of CCW people or armed guards at schools that can stop the next occurrence. We need to raise the public’s awareness and involvement in this problem. We need to secure guns like we do our wallets, cash and our wife’s wedding rings. They are actually more important than those items because they can be used to take a life, which is much more important than money.

    Other approaches could be:
    Requiring CCW people to be trained like cops since that is the duty they are expected to perform.
    It should be unlawful for guns to be in the presence of felons or any violent offender unless they are locked up.
    All guns should be under lock and key unless they are in your presence.
    Outlaw guns that are designed to kill large numbers of humans like the Bushmaster.

    Basically the people with these specialized weapons have to give up a little and the people like Lanza’s neighbors need to wake up and be empowered. More of the negligent, violent and questionable people need to lose their gun rights. And those around them need to be held criminally responsible for supplying them.

  9. #724
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    I don' think I can enlighten you but here goes:

    This issue does not have one or two right approaches. It has many. So when I see the NRA stand up and push mainly two, armed guards at schools and mental screening, they fell way short of what needs to be done. And if they did not have the time to go into all their other thoughts they should have released an in-depth list of all changes that need to be done. As far as I know they have not.

    Citizens, like Adam Lanza’s neighbors, as well as police need to get involved with policing guns. If Lanza’s neighbors knew those guns were in close proximity to that nutcase I’d like for the authorities to be able to be called out to make certain those guns were not within his reach, IOW locked up. If police can be called out for welts on a child back or for a guy crawling through a window or for a hazardous condition in someone’s front yard they should be able to demand the securing of guns. Not only when guns are in the proximity of unstable people but when left unsecured when you are out of the house.
    Since I disagree with calling the police for welts on a child or "hazardous" conditions at someone else's home, I'm going to disagree with this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    We supply a lot of nutbags and criminals these guns either from not trusting/knowing those close to us or from theft. I’d like to see it be a criminal offense for having guns stolen from the home or car resulting in them not being secured properly. If you want to keep a gun in your nightstand and it gets stolen, you pay the criminal negligence price for supplying the black market.
    Do you check your guns daily? Most of these laws place that mandate on you. You must report within 24 hours of the gun being stolen, NOT within 24 hours of discovery.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    There are far more of us than there are of CCW people or armed guards at schools that can stop the next occurrence. We need to raise the public’s awareness and involvement in this problem. We need to secure guns like we do our wallets, cash and our wife’s wedding rings. They are actually more important than those items because they can be used to take a life, which is much more important than money.
    Brian, you're still focusing on GUNS as being the problem. You're the one with the narrow focus. It's all about assault weapons and hi cap magazines.

    You've got crazy people killing innocent people. Let's focus on that simple fact rather than engaging in hysteria over semi-automatic rifles.

    As we've already shown you, the 'assault weapon' hysteria is mostly cosmetic.


    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    Requiring CCW people to be trained like cops since that is the duty they are expected to perform.
    Why do you think that this would be a problem? This is actually a great idea. Once we're trained as police officers, then we can take our guns anywhere, AND, we should get a government stipend for acting as an auxiliary police force.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    It should be unlawful for guns to be in the presence of felons or any violent offender unless they are locked up.
    This creates a sticky issue. Now, I agree with this, and it's already law. It is unlawful for a felon to possess a firearm. PERIOD! Do I now have to perform a background check on everyone that I invite into my home?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    All guns should be under lock and key unless they are in your presence.
    A gun that cannot be accessed in a hurry is useless in an emergency, thus defeating one of the purposes of owning said gun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    Outlaw guns that are designed to kill large numbers of humans like the Bushmaster.
    This is foolish, as we've already discussed. It starts with a fallacy about guns being designed to "kill large numbers of humans"


    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    Basically the people with these specialized weapons have to give up a little and the people like Lanza’s neighbors need to wake up and be empowered. More of the negligent, violent and questionable people need to lose their gun rights. And those around them need to be held criminally responsible for supplying them.
    In the spirit of 'compromise' and since we're "giving a little" under your proposal, what are we gaining? Since compromise is a give and take proposition, I see all give and no take.

  10. #725
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Central Florida
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    885
    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    In the spirit of 'compromise' and since we're "giving a little" under your proposal, what are we gaining? Since compromise is a give and take proposition, I see all give and no take.

    That's most people definition of compromise. You compromise what you want to give me what I want.

  11. #726
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    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfshadow View Post
    That's most people definition of compromise. You compromise what you want to give me what I want.
    I'm well aware of both the perceived and the literal definition of compromise.

    Compromise means meeting in the middle, not one side or the other giving everything.

  12. #727
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,940
    This issue really is not as complicated as everyone keeps trying to make it. Let us own what ever we want to own and punish us if we use what we own against other citizens. This covers guns, vehicles, baseball bats, rope, toxic liquids and everything else that has been abused to do harm to others.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  13. #728
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Boise, ID
    Posts
    4,260
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    This covers guns, vehicles, baseball bats, rope, toxic liquids and everything else that has been abused to do harm to others.
    Does that include my tongue? It can get pretty sharp.
    If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what will never be. (Thomas Jefferson 1816)

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