Why do you feel the need to own a gun? - Page 3
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  1. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    Where did you get that degenerate video Gibs? Not your taste I know. Must be over my head. You're a good man I know and wouldn't be acting like say corny trying to stir up stuff for nothing. Just curious. Thank you, thank you very much
    It is a special access linkability.

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  2. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gib's Son View Post
    Okay, let's have some real music here..

    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

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  3. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by air1 View Post
    Self defense I can understand. But when we say self defense that implies that there is a threat that we fear. So the underlying motivation is fear. A fear of others. Like you said, some fear criminals and others fear the government. But is fear of the government a rational reason for owning a firearm?
    Fear is a big factor. The single, 75+ year old German lady two doors down for me had a guy break into her home while she was there, she had no gun, but she is German and did have baseball bat. My Next door neighbor was burglarized, twice, while no one was home. My truck and garage have been broken into. My neighbor on the other side of me, his wife got mugged in her driveway and his garage has been broken into twice. Now, what if someone where to break into your home at 3am? How fast can you get to a phone, dial 911, and then wait for the police while a bad guy is walking through your home? possibly toward you, your wife and kids. who is going to protect them while your waiting for the cops?


    With the weapons available to the government the small arms of private citizens would be no match. Didn't work out so good for the Taliban. So arming yourself for a potential conflict with the government, the US armed forces, is not being very realistic.
    who said the Military was going to be against us??? And there are so many times in recent history where "David" slew "Goliath" it ain't funny. Just look at Syria today.A year ago the rebels were begging for help from anyone, today they are almost in control and Obummer has recognized the rebels as the legitimate government of that region.


    For self defense, do you need a semi-automatic high powered rifle? Seems to me that a 12 gauge with 00 buck would be plenty of stoping power.
    Again, I'm not trying to solve the gun rights issue. I'm trying to understand why people feel that they need a gun. I believe that there are various reasons but what I sense is that it's mostly driven by fear. The fear may be justified in some cases but mostly the fear is irrational.
    Self defense weapons are always a big debate, especially defense of ones home. Using a large caliber rifle in an urban setting could be the recipe for disaster. High velocity bullets tend to travel through things, like people, walls and neighbors. Personally I prefer a subsonic hand gun projectile. Still has plenty of stopping power and won't over penetrate.


    Mans desire for power seems to be the secondary motivation. If I'm honest with myself, I like the feel of power superior fire power provides. Must be a reptilian brain thing. And third, I think guns are deeply rooted in the culture of American society.
    So if we are to become a more peaceful society, I think the causes of fear need to be eliminated and we need to be honest with ourselves and recognize that part of the motivation to posses a weapon is the primitive desire for power over others.


    I think your confusing "desire for power" and the God given right to protect ones self. The only desire for power I have is "do I have enough gun to stop a threat to me or my family" if your carrying a gun and feel "powerful" I think your carrying for the wrong reason. I seriously do NOT want to shoot anyone. I will back out, run away, retreat like a little girl if I have to. But having a firearm gives me the ONE OPTION, I will need to prevail if I have no where to run.

    As for the 2nd amendment, I've heard several different versions as to why it was included in the constitution. One of them is that states bordering the frontier were concerned that they would not be able to defend themselves and insisted on the amendment. Not to keep the government in check.
    It doesn't matter why the founding fathers put the 2A in the Constitution, it's there and it stays, period


    After the recent shooting I'm seriously rethinking our gun laws. There seems to be several examples of other nations that have strict gun control laws and they seem to be doing alright. My concern is that if gun control law are imposed on us that the government will take it too far. I'm concerned that they would over react and implement draconian measures. There must be some sensible gun reform we can agree on that would help prevent any more shooting like the recent one in Conn.
    What other countries would that be? England? There over all crime rate has skyrocketed. Careful what you read in the media. The way England reports crime is different than how America reports crime. In the UK it's only gun crime AFTER A CONVICTION. Not that you were arrested for aggravated assault. On top of that, the police in the UK have been known to "fudge" the crime figure to make it "look safer" for tourism. ( I have citations to prove what I say is true) Lets look at Brazil. There crime rate with a firearm is twice what ours is, yet they have extremely strict gun control laws and half our population. On the other hand Switzerland has much less crime than we do because every single household is required to have a firearm AND to know how to use it. Japan has very little gun crime, but there knife and sword crime is "up there".
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  4. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by air1 View Post
    Self defense I can understand. But when we say self defense that implies that there is a threat that we fear. So the underlying motivation is fear. A fear of others. Like you said, some fear criminals and others fear the government. But is fear of the government a rational reason for owning a firearm?

    With the weapons available to the government the small arms of private citizens would be no match. Didn't work out so good for the Taliban. So arming yourself for a potential conflict with the government, the US armed forces, is not being very realistic.

    For self defense, do you need a semi-automatic high powered rifle? Seems to me that a 12 gauge with 00 buck would be plenty of stopping power.

    Again, I'm not trying to solve the gun rights issue. I'm trying to understand why people feel that they need a gun. I believe that there are various reasons but what I sense is that it's mostly driven by fear. The fear may be justified in some cases but mostly the fear is irrational.

    Mans desire for power seems to be the secondary motivation.

    If I'm honest with myself, I like the feel of power superior fire power provides. Must be a reptilian brain thing. And third, I think guns are deeply rooted in the culture of American society.

    So if we are to become a more peaceful society, I think the causes of fear need to be eliminated and we need to be honest with ourselves and recognize that part of the motivation to posses a weapon is the primitive desire for power over others.

    As for the 2nd amendment, I've heard several different versions as to why it was included in the constitution. One of them is that states bordering the frontier were concerned that they would not be able to defend themselves and insisted on the amendment. Not to keep the government in check.

    After the recent shooting I'm seriously rethinking our gun laws. There seems to be several examples of other nations that have strict gun control laws and they seem to be doing alright. My concern is that if gun control law are imposed on us that the government will take it too far.

    I'm concerned that they would over react and implement draconian measures. There must be some sensible gun reform we can agree on that would help prevent any more shooting like the recent one in Conn.
    I see where you are coming from... I remember when I was college age (early-mid 1970's), what you post was popular thinking at the time. I will try to explain my perspective on some of your issues (I have divided your post into paragraphs, will address each):

    Fear is not a bad emotion... it is a motivating emotion when necessary. One might want to separate fear and afraid... those are two different emotions... and paranoia is yet another emotion not related to fear or afraid. I can say with clarity and experience the gun folks I frequently socialize with are not afraid, they are not paranoid, yet they fully understand the reality of things one has to protect oneself from. I would call that healthy fear. We need to remember a utopian society with no risk or danger is not possible as long as humans are involved... been tried too many times, always failed.

    As Tool suggested... guerrilla or insurgent warfare works... it is how the American revolution was fought and the British (a superior army) was defeated. All that hardware is just the military industrial complex at work producing jobs... You can take many a state in the USA, and there are more hunting licenses sold in one year than trained trigger pullers (soldiers) in all 5 branches of the US military. Now lump all those states together... And then there is the sense of God and Country; would the US military really turn on the citizens? Posse Comatotis (sp). Now it is possible if that UN treaty to disarm the world was endorsed by the USA... UN troops might go around collecting guns... I would hate to see what would happen in most of America if that happened... might be worse than the Civil War...

    Rationalizing what weapon one needs is not the issue; the issue is whether a governmental body has the right to tell you what you can and cannot have. We need to remember that.

    Fear is not irrational... fear is a healthy emotion that motivates someone to do something about a situation.

    When we discuss man's desire for power, I need to say this is GA's opinion: IMO most of us keep that desire in balance... A few do not. Note criminals, organized crime, politicians, greedy business-folks... and while we are at it... the majority of countries in the world (probably almost all of them) are run by folks who would not even flinch when making the decision to rob, rape, pillage, etc... to build/maintain their power base. Now you really want to tell me you believe man's desire for power is not something to be cautious about???

    Here is a thought: Does one feel they are powerful when they have deadly force on their person... or do they feel safer from a REAL threat? Ever run a service call in the bad part of town, after dark? That queasy feeling in your gut is rational and justified fear (remember above we said fear is not a bad emotion)... something any person would be concerned with...

    Crime... and the criminal mind... are based on the idea person A "can" take something from person B without consequences. This mentality will be around as long as humans are around. So how do we deal with this mentality??? When we answer that question, we will have a lot of other questions answered. GA's personal opinion is we will not ever change this short-coming of humanity... so the need for governing society is a necessity. In GA's opinion a peaceful society is a society where folks respect each other... that will happen with boundaries and strength tempered with a sense of community.

    GA will start a new thread about the second amendment... I will post the link in this thread later. Might want to look at it... folks will be surprised.

    When have govts not taken things too far... <grin> Politicians tend to kiss up to public opinion (some would say after the same polecats fanned the flames of the opinion machine). Herein lies the problem with power...

    IMO I read in your last sentence a not-so-trusting sense with the govt... IMO a healthy attitude. Govts are made of power-hungry folks... herein lies the problem; We need government... yet govts are made of humans that are less than honest, are greedy, dishonest, and generally corrupt... So how do we bridge the gap and have honest folks in govt? Or if we cannot have honest govt, how do we protect ourselves from dishonest govt? Again, if we can find the answer to that question...
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  5. #31
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    Because it irritates the hell out of liberals.
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  6. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootlen View Post
    Because it irritates the hell out of liberals.
    good one, LOL
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  7. #33
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    Thanks for all the insightful replies you guys. And the funny ones too. I guess I can agree with peoples need to defend themselves. We just need to make sure only competent people are allowed to posses guns. But how do you determine who's competent and who's not?
    "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten". --Benjamin Franklin
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  8. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by air1 View Post
    Thanks for all the insightful replies you guys. And the funny ones too. I guess I can agree with peoples need to defend themselves. We just need to make sure only competent people are allowed to posses guns. But how do you determine who's competent and who's not?
    Good question!

    Personally, I do not think this is a govt thing... rather a personal thing. A strong yet community oriented society will take care of its own... including keeping a watchful eye on kids who are growing up sideways...

    We need to remember: Utopia is not gonna happen as long as humans are around... so lets figure out how to work with what we have... flaws and all.

    PS--My reason for not wanting the govt involved is because it seems everything the govt touches costs more than it should, is in-efficient, and worst of all is full of political favors the rest of us have to pay for.
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  9. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by clifpaul View Post
    I inherited most of mine. A couple of them are limited production models.
    +1.

    My Dad was gonna let my grandfather's 1918 Savage and Colt go to the smelter, I got a permit so I could claim them. And here in NY you have to jump through a lot of hurdles to get a permit.
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  10. #36
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    Out of the dozen or so I own I only paid for one. the rest I inheireted from my grandfather like you

  11. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    +1.

    My Dad was gonna let my grandfather's 1918 Savage and Colt go to the smelter, I got a permit so I could claim them. And here in NY you have to jump through a lot of hurdles to get a permit.
    I'll drink to that, It took me 9 months to get my permit.

    Did you hear, Cuomo is proposing a 7 round magazine for all AR/AK style "assault weapons" all others will be banned
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  12. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Good question!

    Personally, I do not think this is a govt thing... rather a personal thing. A strong yet community oriented society will take care of its own... including keeping a watchful eye on kids who are growing up sideways...

    We need to remember: Utopia is not gonna happen as long as humans are around... so lets figure out how to work with what we have... flaws and all.

    PS--My reason for not wanting the govt involved is because it seems everything the govt touches costs more than it should, is in-efficient, and worst of all is full of political favors the rest of us have to pay for.
    This is the kind of thing that perplexes me about some conservatives.

    Personally, I do not think this is a govt thing... rather a personal thing. A strong yet community oriented society will take care of its own... including keeping a watchful eye on kids who are growing up sideways...

    They see the world as they THINK it should be (kind of like the land of perfect in the Walgreens commercials) rather than looking at the world the way it is and trying to deal with the situation the way it stands. But in the very next sentence.

    We need to remember: Utopia is not gonna happen as long as humans are around... so lets figure out how to work with what we have... flaws and all.

    Perplexing to say the least since strong communities are not the norm for the vast stretches of America.This is the sad truth no matter what color glasses you choose to wear.

  13. #39
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    The original question that started this post was the wrong question in the first place. "Why do you feel the need to own a gun?" I don't own a gun because I feel anything. My ownership of firearms has absolutely nothing to do with "feelings"

    My ownership has to do with careful logical thought and considersation for my personal wellbeing, safety, security and rights. It is the liberals who live by their "feelings". Not me!

    Hugh

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