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  1. #2770
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    Feb 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post

    In a word: local culture.

    Folks think and behave differently in different parts of the country... Even here in metro Atlanta one finds different thinking and behavior on the other side of town.

    Thinking the world works on sterile numbers is a form of deception IMO... In stead of trying to amass a bunch of numbers and make a career of interpreting them... we should just go out there and WORK for a living... and learn from our EXPERIENCES. It is called common sense. Problem is... it is not 'cool'... therein lies the rub... being 'trendy' seems to be more important than thinking clearly.

    Then we need to add changing trends... The SAME people who say liberal when they are young... will say conservative when they grow more mature... not particularly old, just more mature. So to say things are this way or that way based on a survey at a specific point in time... well that is VERY short sighted.. and thus does not hold much truth. One really needs to look at the larger picture.

    Problem with the larger picture is; It is hard to promote one's political career on large picture statistics... they are hard to manipulate... (whoops)
    I completely agree with you, and thank you for proving my point.

    My point is not that guns are bad, but that you can't say crime is down in an area just because of guns, as some on this forum tend to believe.

  2. #2771
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
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    21,175
    Quote Originally Posted by AStudent View Post
    I completely agree with you, and thank you for proving my point.

    My point is not that guns are bad, but that you can't say crime is down in an area just because of guns, as some on this forum tend to believe.
    Yes you can say crime goes down when law abiding citizens are armed. It is just common sense that a criminal will go where the least resistance to their criminal activity exists.
    Would you attempt to rob a gathering of hunters... of course not... common sense says they are armed and would successfully resist your criminal intent. However if you KNEW a subdivision of houses was totally disarmed and defenseless... then yeah... easy low applies to pick.

    High minded thinking (or thinking high minded thinking is smart)... is a sign of someone who does not have 'experience' with life. When folks have experience... they just understand. Until then... well they have some growing and learning to do. Just life. What amazes me is the small number of folks who have common sense these days... When I was growing up in the 1960's... it was just assumed folks DID (have common sense). If they did not... well they were at a SERIOUS disadvantage of life. So how does one get 'common sense'... just go out and live life... it comes with experience and time. Example:

    Say someone runs a business... They will learn soon there are always customers who try to get something for nothing... and one does not make much $$$ (or looses $$$) dealing with those customer. YET: one cannot just p*ss them off... lets one gets a bad rep. So one learns how to be polite, respectful, positive... yet not do the job unless they make decent $$$: AND at the same time not p*ss off the cheapskate jerk.

    Govt was not as prolific back then... folks had to fend for themselves or deal with the consequences of not being pro-active to take care of oneself.

    Now Student: You need to specifically address the sentence above that is underlined... or your credibility may drop to the level of Brian's.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

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  3. #2772
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Dacula, GA
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    12,616
    Quote Originally Posted by AStudent View Post
    I completely agree with you, and thank you for proving my point.

    My point is not that guns are bad, but that you can't say crime is down in an area just because of guns, as some on this forum tend to believe.
    Student you have no point at all. All the evidence "points" to lower crime rates because of the availability of law-abiding citizens being able to carry guns but that is just the opposite of the liberal way of thinking so you are unable to agree with logic, common sense and the facts. Just face it. Geez. Thank you, thank you very much
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."
    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."
    Barry Goldwater

  4. #2773
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
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    3,386
    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Laws ARE black and white... you obey them or you pay the consequences for your choice to not obey them.
    What planet are you from? Laws are written in black and white but hardly enforced that way. Name a law that is enforced in “black and white” to everyone across the line?

  5. #2774
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Rochester, NY, USA
    Posts
    14,307
    ever get a parking ticket...........black and white

    Ever get a speeding ticket.........black and white ( You can plea it down, but you still got a ticket---we call 'em 1180D )

    Ever forget to pay your taxes...black and white

    you need to spend a few days in a court room gallery, you'll discover a new meaning to the words slow motion and boredom

    some laws you can plea down, but the fact is most laws have a president. And that what a judge will hand down on a guilty charge. He has to go by guide lines set forth in previous law. Many times he has no discretion.


    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    What planet are you from? Laws are written in black and white but hardly enforced that way. Name a law that is enforced in “black and white” to everyone across the line?
    The Last four letters


    American = I Can, Republican = I Can, Democrats = Rats


    any questions

  6. #2775
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    1,268
    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post

    Student you have no point at all. All the evidence "points" to lower crime rates because of the availability of law-abiding citizens being able to carry guns but that is just the opposite of the liberal way of thinking so you are unable to agree with logic, common sense and the facts. Just face it. Geez. Thank you, thank you very much
    Check a few pages back Glenn....my post shows that there is no real difference in States that allow carry vs. States that don't.

  7. #2776
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    1,268
    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post

    Yes you can say crime goes down when law abiding citizens are armed. It is just common sense that a criminal will go where the least resistance to their criminal activity exists.
    Would you attempt to rob a gathering of hunters... of course not... common sense says they are armed and would successfully resist your criminal intent. However if you KNEW a subdivision of houses was totally disarmed and defenseless... then yeah... easy low applies to pick.

    High minded thinking (or thinking high minded thinking is smart)... is a sign of someone who does not have 'experience' with life. When folks have experience... they just understand. Until then... well they have some growing and learning to do. Just life. What amazes me is the small number of folks who have common sense these days... When I was growing up in the 1960's... it was just assumed folks DID (have common sense). If they did not... well they were at a SERIOUS disadvantage of life. So how does one get 'common sense'... just go out and live life... it comes with experience and time. Example:

    Say someone runs a business... They will learn soon there are always customers who try to get something for nothing... and one does not make much $$$ (or looses $$$) dealing with those customer. YET: one cannot just p*ss them off... lets one gets a bad rep. So one learns how to be polite, respectful, positive... yet not do the job unless they make decent $$$: AND at the same time not p*ss off the cheapskate jerk.

    Govt was not as prolific back then... folks had to fend for themselves or deal with the consequences of not being pro-active to take care of oneself.

    Now Student: You need to specifically address the sentence above that is underlined... or your credibility may drop to the level of Brian's.
    Common sense tells us those things, but apparently criminals don't always use common sense or else they wouldn't be criminals.

    You ask me if I would rob a group of hunters....well that depends. Am I on mind altering drugs? Do I have a full auto ak-47 to their shotguns that are sitting inside their campers unattended? Are they asleep and left their guns leaned up against a tree?

  8. #2777
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    1,268
    Quote Originally Posted by AStudent View Post

    Common sense tells us those things, but apparently criminals don't always use common sense or else they wouldn't be criminals.

    You ask me if I would rob a group of hunters....well that depends. Am I on mind altering drugs? Do I have a full auto ak-47 to their shotguns that are sitting inside their campers unattended? Are they asleep and left their guns leaned up against a tree?
    All I'm saying is that guns are not the only factor in crime....guns can also be looked at as a prevention and contributor to crime. Statistics are not black and white... an infinite number of possibilities play into each and every crime.

  9. #2778
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    Dec 2000
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    I'm an old cowhand from the Rio Grande
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    17,089
    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    [COLOR=#222222][FONT=Verdana] All the evidence "points" to lower crime rates because of the availability of law-abiding citizens being able to carry guns COLOR]
    The most accurate and scientific statement that can be credibly made is that carry laws have little if any impact on crime rates.

  10. #2779
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    I'm an old cowhand from the Rio Grande
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Yes you can say crime goes down when law abiding citizens are armed.
    You can indeed say that but you would have no credible evidence to support that statement.

  11. #2780
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    Dec 2000
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    I'm an old cowhand from the Rio Grande
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Thinking the world works on sterile numbers is a form of deception IMO... In stead of trying to amass a bunch of numbers and make a career of interpreting them... we should just go out there and WORK for a living... and learn from our EXPERIENCES. It is called common sense. Problem is... it is not 'cool'... therein lies the rub... being 'trendy' seems to be more important than thinking clearly.
    Kinda like when you relied on sterile numbers in predicting a Romney landslide win.

  12. #2781
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
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    3,386
    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post
    ever get a parking ticket...........black and white
    Yes. I just got one and fought it and won. To the meter reader I was guilty. To his boss I wasn’t.

    Ever get a speeding ticket.........black and white ( You can plea it down, but you still got a ticket---we call 'em 1180D )
    Not so. The speed law reads you must not exceed the speed limit, yet police only write tickets for 10+mph over the limit. If you happen to be a family member of a policeman, a fireman, a politician or be flashing your big boobs you walk. As for fighting it in court there are many conditions where speeding in condoned.

    Ever forget to pay your taxes...black and white
    Taxes paid are all over the place…depending on how good your EA is.

    You need to spend a few days in a court room gallery,
    I have sued clients three times in court and won two times. Both times I had nothing in writing about the overages. The third time I went up against Pittsburgh Paint. The judge IMO didn’t want to rule against such a big entity. So I went to the head of the Marketing Dept and won my case and was paid.

    I’ve fought speeding tickets and an exhibition of speed and won. I’ve also watched a friend get framed by the LAPD and get 45 years in prison. So yes, I’ve spent my days in the courtroom.

    some laws you can plea down,
    You pleas down charges, not laws. You can beat them altogether too.

  13. #2782
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    25,675
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post

    Yes. I just got one and fought it and won. To the meter reader I was guilty. To his boss I wasn’t.

    Not so. The speed law reads you must not exceed the speed limit, yet police only write tickets for 10+mph over the limit. If you happen to be a family member of a policeman, a fireman, a politician or be flashing your big boobs you walk. As for fighting it in court there are many conditions where speeding in condoned.

    Taxes paid are all over the place…depending on how good your EA is.

    I have sued clients three times in court and won two times. Both times I had nothing in writing about the overages. The third time I went up against Pittsburgh Paint. The judge IMO didn’t want to rule against such a big entity. So I went to the head of the Marketing Dept and won my case and was paid.

    I’ve fought speeding tickets and an exhibition of speed and won. I’ve also watched a friend get framed by the LAPD and get 45 years in prison. So yes, I’ve spent my days in the courtroom.

    You pleas down charges, not laws. You can beat them altogether too.
    Why does Brian know the letter of the law in this case, but attempt to refute the letter of the law where guns are concerned?

    Or am I the only one who has noticed that?

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