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  1. #2159
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    Where do crims get their guns?
    Either there is a massive imported black market or from irresponsible gun owners. So unless you regulate the gun owners to make them responsible, then all that will increase is more guns for the crims. chicken and egg!
    some are stolen from homes. around here we have had two gun stores burglarized, in one 52 hand guns were stolen and the other was last week, 36 hand guns were stolen. not sure about long guns?

    I forgot, we did have a Tactical Store robbed of 4 AR-15 back in Dec.
    Last edited by jmac00; 01-25-2013 at 10:04 PM. Reason: added content
    LOVE has four letters

    So does BEER, DEER,GUNS AND FISH

  2. #2160
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    Dec 2011
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    New Zealand
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post
    some are stolen from homes. around here we have had two gun stores burglarized, in one 52 hand guns were stolen and the other was last week, 36 hand guns were stolen. not sure about long guns?
    Firstly I will always say that it is the crims fault not the victims.
    But using you examples, where the hand guns in a simple display case (locked maybe) or with in secured vault. The first being a simple crash and grab, no much brain or time required, or the vault which would require more brains and time.
    Would be fair to say, that the majority of those who want some form of gun control, want to stop the proliferation of guns moving the criminal sector.

  3. #2161
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    Apr 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    Where do crims get their guns?
    Either there is a massive imported black market or from irresponsible gun owners. So unless you regulate the gun owners to make them responsible, then all that will increase is more guns for the crims. chicken and egg!
    Criminals also get guns from the U.S. government! The BATF, the very agency with the job of enforcing federal firearms laws occasionally (several times that we know of) runs programs where criminals can purchase firearms. Those very firearms have turned up at murder scenes and others have been directly linked to killings and other violent crimes.

    Eric Holder refuses to cooperate with the investigation and is refusing to provide additional documents to the investigators in spite of being charged by congress.

  4. #2162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh B View Post
    Criminals also get guns from the U.S. government! The BATF, the very agency with the job of enforcing federal firearms laws occasionally (several times that we know of) runs programs where criminals can purchase firearms. Those very firearms have turned up at murder scenes and others have been directly linked to killings and other violent crimes.

    Eric Holder refuses to cooperate with the investigation and is refusing to provide additional documents to the investigators in spite of being charged by congress.
    So you are saying the vast majority of weapons used by crims are given out by policy by your govt, left and right? If yes then you are in the shyte?

  5. #2163
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    So you are saying the vast majority of weapons used by crims are given out by policy by your govt, left and right? If yes then you are in the shyte?
    Nope, never said the vast majority. But we do know of well over a thousand and perhaps more. This was accomplished by the very agency with the job of enforcing federal firearms laws. The chief law enforcement officer to whom they report is Eric Holder and he is refusing to cooperate with the investigation. We are waiting for a court judge to order him to cooperate. That is yet to be seen.

  6. #2164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh B View Post
    Nope, never said the vast majority. But we do know of well over a thousand and perhaps more. This was accomplished by the very agency with the job of enforcing federal firearms laws. The chief law enforcement officer to whom they report is Eric Holder and he is refusing to cooperate with the investigation. We are waiting for a court judge to order him to cooperate. That is yet to be seen.
    OK, all good, I was going to call for a revolution

  7. #2165
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    May 2000
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    Rochester, NY, USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    Firstly I will always say that it is the crims fault not the victims.
    But using you examples, where the hand guns in a simple display case (locked maybe) or with in secured vault. The first being a simple crash and grab, no much brain or time required, or the vault which would require more brains and time.
    Would be fair to say, that the majority of those who want some form of gun control, want to stop the proliferation of guns moving the criminal sector.
    Have no idea how these weapons were secured.

    I would say that NO ONE from either side of the gun debate wants criminals/lunatics to have access to any firearms, stolen or otherwise. Kind of a no-brainer don't ya think?
    LOVE has four letters

    So does BEER, DEER,GUNS AND FISH

  8. #2166
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post
    Have no idea how these weapons were secured.

    I would say that NO ONE from either side of the gun debate wants criminals/lunatics to have access to any firearms, stolen or otherwise. Kind of a no-brainer don't ya think?
    Barbar,

    The good thing is that in many states we have the right to carry a loaded and concealed firearm in public for our own self-defense. That is becoming more and more popular. Where ever this is accomplished crime decreases a great deal and we don't have a bunch of people with guns shooting one another. It works!

  9. #2167
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    Sep 2005
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    Atlanta GA area
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    For a moment replay that incident in your mind. If you were carrying back then would it have changed the outcome or fear you experienced?
    Absolutely!

    Not that I would have played Rambo... however the reality I was not helpless would have calmed my fears considerably. Would the outcome have been any different? Probably not.

    You see Brian... Even folks who are LE trained agree: The BEST thing to do is reduce tensions... Even if you have to let the perp take your $$$.
    Read: 'In the gravest extreme' by Mossad Ayoub... In the book he suggests carrying a moneyclip in your pocket with $20-30 in it... Just give it to the perp and let them walk. Better yet.... show it to them... then pitch it 20-30 ft away and tell them that is all you have. They will look at it... you RUN LIKE H*LL. They will probably grab the $$$ and leave.

    Now OTOH: If the wifey or a child was there... and there was a real danger to life or health... Well that changes the whole picture.
    Protecting ones (or ones families) life... well that is something worth risking one's own life for.

    My position is: ALWAYS try every reasonable way to de-escalate the situation. When it is clear one party is gonna be harmed or loose their life (lives)... then be sure the bad guy is the one who goes to see Jesus. You will find most of the CCW folks in my area see it the same way.

    You see Brian: We ALL see life as precious... ALL life. ONLY when someone steps over the line of threatening health or life... does a trained CCW person choose to take their life. And honestly... I see that as justified. If someone has such little regard for their fellow humans... they would take their life over a couple "C" notes or a car... well they do not deserve to live; and the world is better without them.
    Now would I get involved in breaking up a robbery... Probably not. One is better to avoid trouble. Now if I saw someone attempting to rape a lady or a child... well that is another story. Honestly... I would have to be there and evaluate the situation before I could say what I would do. They teach lots of things in 'situational awareness' class... something EVERY CCW permit holder who carries regularly should take.

    Now I know this will meet with opposition... however: If one reads around in the books of Exodus and Leviticus and Numbers in the Bible... one will see capital punishment is quite clearly explained... when to and when not to. So while the Lord God is a loving and benevolent Father... He also is a Just God who teaches his followers to hold folks accountable for their choices. It is called the 'rule of law'... something our constitution states clearly.
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  10. #2168
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    Barbar... Hugh... doesnt know what he is talking about.... crime has been decreasing in america over the last couple of decades.... Someone like hugh will tout the fact that crime goes down where guns are able to be carried....but when you point out that crime has also gone down in places where guns are forbidden to everyone but the criminals.... they refuse to hear it.
    YOU SHALL REAP WHAT YOU HAVE _______ SOWN

  11. #2169
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    Apr 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by corny View Post
    Barbar... Hugh... doesnt know what he is talking about.... crime has been decreasing in america over the last couple of decades.... Someone like hugh will tout the fact that crime goes down where guns are able to be carried....but when you point out that crime has also gone down in places where guns are forbidden to everyone but the criminals.... they refuse to hear it.
    Corny, you are totally incorrect. Dr. Gary Kleck of the University of Florida has published studies using the FBI Uniform Crime Statistics to show that crime decreases when citizen carry laws are relaxed while at the same time crime is high or increasing where citizens are not allowed to carry firearms.

  12. #2170
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    Sep 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by AStudent View Post
    Speaking of gun laws and fools.....aren't many of you calling the anti gun movement fools....but yet support laws making abortion illegal?
    Simply put: BOTH are freedom issues.

    One is addressed by the founding documents... the other is not.
    BOTH are states rights issues also... so the FED govt and SCOTUS have NO business messing with them.
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    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

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  13. #2171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    Just as a gun is used as a tool of intimidation by CCW holders in a situation the same can be said about a criminal’s use of handguns. That guy who robbed you Ga did not fire the gun nor would I assume he wanted to fire it. So to better describe the criminal’s use of guns, they do not fire bullets when using a gun 99% of the time either. Should we give them the same credit for that as we give to CCW holders?

    IOW maybe it is nature of the use of a gun not to fire it and no credit should be given to the CCW holder for not firing them.
    Brian... you are comparing a criminal to a law abiding citizen... there is NO comparison.

    A person who would use a gun to commit a crime is in a TOTALLY different place than a person who would use a gun to defend themselves.

    Your argument holds less water than a funnel.

    You really need to get away from BSNBC... it is warping your ability to understand.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

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