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  1. #1678
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
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    New Zealand
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    In my state, there isn't a safe storage law that I'm aware of.

    Since our government was formed by responsible people, they created it FOR responsible people.

    Mandating responsibility isn't likely to work. Since legislating an end to drugs, murder and such has worked so well....


    It's a societal issue, not a gun issue.
    I accept your argument, so there is penanlty for drugs and murder, using your point, if a gun owner is not responsible, does not secure his weapons
    as you do, then he/she would also be penalized.
    So if a crim entered your house, attacked your gun cabinet, stole your weapons, I think it would be fair to say that you had taken all reasonable care, to stop the theft from happaning, but if you leave them on the kitchen bench, for all to see then you are inviting the crime, so you really have not taken all reasonable steps. I know that the crime itself, is the one to be punished, and it is a little unfair to punish the victim.
    If i leave my car unlocked, and some crims, steal what inside, I will not get an insurance payment, because I did not take reasonable care.

  2. #1679
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,944
    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    Who the hell is talking about disarming americans, but some americans have issues and there rights have to be considered. Is that not also their right.
    You obviously have no clue as to what this conversation is even about. The U.S. government is most certainly taking steps toward disarming Americans. If you don't know what the subject is, your input can only be completely wrong.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  3. #1680
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
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    68,944
    It seems that the leftist mind either cannot think rationally, or is so deceitful that leftists will just continue coming at a point they want to make from any direction that will make it sound like their objective is somehow rational. This is why socially inept men and women beat their spouses.

    I'm beginning to think that the best way to reduce violent crime is to muzzle leftists so they can't frustrate rationally thinking citizens.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  4. #1681
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    11,873
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    It seems that the leftist mind either cannot think rationally, or is so deceitful that leftists will just continue coming at a point they want to make from any direction that will make it sound like their objective is somehow rational.
    I figure, keep feeding them facts, and eventually they'll go away.

  5. #1682
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    New Zealand
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    2,204
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    You obviously have no clue as to what this conversation is even about. The U.S. government is most certainly taking steps toward disarming Americans. If you don't know what the subject is, your input can only be completely wrong.
    You are good there Robo, you must of got a new wooden spoon for xmas, you come back with all the vigar of a young buck.
    The comment you refer to was in response to a personal attack on me, so "who the hell" is clearly me!
    Why is the reason for disarming americans, is that some americans "VOTED" for a govt,that promotes, or is it that gun owners seem think that there is no problem at all, and refuse to even look at more responsible gun ownership.
    I am all for gun ownership,

  6. #1683
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Rochester, NY, USA
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    14,308
    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    Who the hell is talking about disarming americans, but some americans have issues and there rights have to be considered. Is that not also their right.
    we all have rights, the only issue is, whatever it is Im into, doesn't interfere with what someone else is doing.

    So if Im carrying a concealed firearm, and you have no clue who Im am or what Im doing, what rights of yours have been violated.

    Lets reverse that: What if your carrying a concealed firearm, I really don't care, until you pull it out (your firearm) and start waving it around. and if your doing it to protect people around you from a nutball, knockyourselfout
    The Last four letters


    American = I Can, Republican = I Can, Democrats = Rats


    any questions

  7. #1684
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    New Zealand
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    2,204
    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post
    we all have rights, the only issue is, whatever it is Im into, doesn't interfere with what someone else is doing.

    So if Im carrying a concealed firearm, and you have no clue who Im am or what Im doing, what rights of yours have been violated.

    Lets reverse that: What if your carrying a concealed firearm, I really don't care, until you pull it out (your firearm) and start waving it around. and if your doing it to protect people around you from a nutball, knockyourselfout
    If you are in control of your weapon, open or concealed, i have no concern as long as you are responsable and proficient in use . Not waving it around or using it a threatening manor (unless you are in real danger and you are going to hit the target, I know that is not a major issue, but many would sure be happier, if they knew those who carried did know how to use and surely most crims are even less likely to commit, if they knew that those who do, also know how to use), Owning a gun does not make you responsible nor does it make you markmans. No different to taking driving test, and not sure about the states but i presume you want to rive a truck, or a bus, you need more than a car driving licence. If you want a hand gun, you get a licence (testing) for hand gun, you want a machine gun you get a different licence.

  8. #1685
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    25,692
    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    I accept your argument, so there is penanlty for drugs and murder, using your point, if a gun owner is not responsible, does not secure his weapons
    as you do, then he/she would also be penalized.
    So if a crim entered your house, attacked your gun cabinet, stole your weapons, I think it would be fair to say that you had taken all reasonable care, to stop the theft from happaning, but if you leave them on the kitchen bench, for all to see then you are inviting the crime, so you really have not taken all reasonable steps. I know that the crime itself, is the one to be punished, and it is a little unfair to punish the victim.
    If i leave my car unlocked, and some crims, steal what inside, I will not get an insurance payment, because I did not take reasonable care.
    I really wouldn't have a problem with this.

  9. #1686
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    11,873
    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    If you are in control of your weapon, open or concealed, i have no concern as long as you are responsable and proficient in use . Not waving it around or using it a threatening manor (unless you are in real danger and you are going to hit the target, I know that is not a major issue, but many would sure be happier, if they knew those who carried did know how to use and surely most crims are even less likely to commit, if they knew that those who do, also know how to use), Owning a gun does not make you responsible nor does it make you markmans. No different to taking driving test, and not sure about the states but i presume you want to rive a truck, or a bus, you need more than a car driving licence. If you want a hand gun, you get a licence (testing) for hand gun, you want a machine gun you get a different licence.
    Spell check is your friend.

    I believe it's called brandishing a weapon. I've never seen anyone do it. How many times have you witnessed it?
    Do you watch a lot of TV? Because that would explain a lot.

  10. #1687
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    25,692
    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    If you are in control of your weapon, open or concealed, i have no concern as long as you are responsable and proficient in use .
    This is a rational and reasonable point of view.

    This isn't the point of view being taken by many.

    Even if you're a responsible owner, some believe that you shouldn't be permitted to own semi-automatics or magazines.

    Here lies the problem that most of us have. Why should the law-abiding majority suffer for the actions of a very few?

    This is where the disarming arguments come from. This is where OUR outrage is.

    That law-abiding citizens are being punished for being law-abiding.

  11. #1688
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Rochester, NY, USA
    Posts
    14,308
    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    If you are in control of your weapon, open or concealed, i have no concern as long as you are responsable and proficient in use . Not waving it around or using it a threatening manor (unless you are in real danger and you are going to hit the target, I know that is not a major issue, but many would sure be happier, if they knew those who carried did know how to use and surely most crims are even less likely to commit, if they knew that those who do, also know how to use), Owning a gun does not make you responsible nor does it make you markmans. No different to taking driving test, and not sure about the states but i presume you want to rive a truck, or a bus, you need more than a car driving licence. If you want a hand gun, you get a licence (testing) for hand gun, you want a machine gun you get a different licence.
    I have a License issued by the state of NY, (as of right now it seems it's a worthless piece of paper) and "Machine guns" and Assault Weapons have been banned since '68.

    I think you will find that most CCW holders are quit good with there firearms, Gang members on the other hand, not so much.
    The Last four letters


    American = I Can, Republican = I Can, Democrats = Rats


    any questions

  12. #1689
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Kaufman county, Texas
    Posts
    10,117
    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    Tool, or can i call you Maate ( a compliment with an accent), your moving over to the dark side, as far sense of humor, "gd on yr"!

    What about a comprise, we send our culls over to your Mexicans.

    I am not trying make a political point, but a point that there are many avenues open, personal i think, that it should be gun owners driving regulation, for responsible gun ownership.

    The one point i do not understand is the resistance to security of weapons, when not being used or in control. You keep your guns in a lock box,
    is this by choice or by law.
    Well maate, now that you mention it I guess I actually do keep all of my guns locked when not in my presence. Security is relative to the situation.

    I can legally keep a loaded gun under my truck seat in Texas, do not ever, I keep it locked in the tool-box for the security of the gun to not be stolen. In my case, I do not go to or work in dangerous places. I have it if staying at a motel, staying with family or friends, or a roadside break-down. That gun is more for security of the truck/tools than me personally. Nobody wants me, but the truck/tools are very valuable.

    At my shop, I keep a gun in the desk unsecured. But the shop is locked and very secure. I honestly doubt a thief would ever find the gun because he would be too busy with all of the tools and supplies on the way. Not likely to ever be burglarized at this location.

    My home which is locked but not very secure at all I also keep a gun in the desk. But that is hidden in the desk. Actually the whole house is hidden. Very remote location. That gun is removed, as business reasons keep me away from home. I have a .22 rifle unsecured in plain sight behind a locked door and a 30.30 bolt action unsecured but hidden there.

    A gun safe would be pointless at home, impractical at the shop, and too large for my truck. Circumstantial. If I lived in an apartment with these guns, I would absolutely have a gun-safe. Many years ago I lived with a rather unstable woman, and at that time I did keep the ammunition locked up. Guns not locked or hidden, but unloaded.

    Bottom line... it is all circumstantial. In my case, I have no real use for a gun case because it is impractical for me. In my case, I have no need for a Concealed Carry Permit because it is impractical for me. My guns are secure, not the MAXIMUM secure, but secure enough. My guns are accessible, not the MAXIMUM accessible, but accessible enough. It is all a matter of personal judgement, and personal responsibility, which must be left to the freedom of the individual. This cannot be 'legislated'.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

  13. #1690
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon
    Posts
    1,018
    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    You obviously do not know much of what you say... Care to post some verifiable numbers of GDP for each of the G-20 countries? Might learn something...
    About 1/3 of the national debt is owed to foreign countries. If the US defaults it will effect those countries. Why do you think the Euro collapsed the last time our financial markets melted down. It's because other countries were heavily invested in the US economy. So when the US goes down a lot of other countries economies will go down with us. And the US dollar is the global currency so if the dollar collapses, it affects the global economy.
    This is real basic economics GA. I though you would a least understand this. I'm disappointed.
    "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten". --Benjamin Franklin
    "Don't argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience". --Mark Twain
    http://www.campbellmechanical.com

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