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  1. #1574
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    I never stated that any one was more or less than a citizen, however you have laws, in many cases almost counter acting each other. As I said in an earlier post, you do need to give a reason to own a gun, it is your right. But if this right is influencing others rights, which is the stronger.
    Why would following the law/principle make you any lesser.

    OK, I own several guns. Big shock, I know.

    They're across the room in a locked gun cabinet save for ONE that is kept readily accessible for defensive purposes.

    Now, let's plant a militant anti-gunner across the street from me. This person believes that I shouldn't own guns AT ALL.

    One could easily argue that my safe and responsible ownership of firearms is interfering with that person's "pursuit of happiness" while their radical position of gun ownership interferes with mine.

    So, do I hand over my guns or so they pull up their panties?

  2. #1575
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    Firstly if you had the ability to understand, you would realize that I am talking about the rule of law and not emotions. A simple question was still not answered which has the greatest power in law (i have taken the moral, thus emotional issue out), the founding document or the second amendment?
    A pretty simple question maybe more a difficult to answer. You have as a negative person can only see the bad in the question, when it indeed is equally relevent to those who want guns.

    You take your poll, based upon people who you meet in a gun store, and base your public opinion on this. you may 60 years old , but lacking life experience.

    Clearly there are polecats, who do what they will, but are you telling me that there are next to no people who have concern regarding the gun issue. Even in this small arena, there are a good percentage that do. So I judge for my self.

    You show absolutely no balance or respect for your same country men that may have a genuine concern.

    Again you term "My Fellow Americans" as if they have the same attitude as you, when clearly they do not, as shown in the recent elections.

    I am on the internet, so my views are not bound by physical or political boundaries. If the sites rules say for US residents only, then i will gladly remove my self from the forum. I for one believe in keeping with in the law, but will attempt to change the law, if i feel it is not correct. I take ownership of my freedom.

    You seem to have a real problem with intellectuals, "did you know that jealousy is one of the deadly sins!"

    Answer the bloody question, if you can, if you can not then say so, No Shame it not knowing, I do not so i have asked the question.
    I have a suggestion guy: You need to leave NZ and go to Wash DC... you are a spin-master in the same league with the polecats we keep and bear our arms to protect ourselves from.

    And as has been shown: Folks outside the USA really do not understand our country... they do not even know the founding documents they talk about.

    However to prove GA is a good guy... Here is a link to the founding documents so folks can be educated on what they speak of.

    http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/cha...stitution.html

    If you look at the top... you will find notations to read the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of rights. I suggest you read ALL FIVE links...

    Now within a day or so... when I read your posts I expect to see writings based on understanding what I posted in the link above (now there is no excuse... <grin>).
    Now here is a hint: The founders had just left a country with an oppressive govt. They wrote a set of documents to form a govt to govern... yet one the people could control. The second amendment gives 'teeth' to the rest of the documents... therefore it is in a sense a cornerstone of the entire set of documents.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Galatians 2:20-21; Colossians 1: 21-22 & 26-27; 3:1-4; Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service.

  3. #1576
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    No, Brian,

    You're wrong.

    I'd call him out if I thought that he were wrong.

    I happen to agree with him.

    You haven't brought anything to the discussion beyond your opinions and wildly incorrect assumptions and accusations.
    BTW Brian...

    JP HAS called me out many a time... both at ARP and in the tech forums... a place I never see you BTW. Sorry... time to call BS Brian... care to man up to it?
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Galatians 2:20-21; Colossians 1: 21-22 & 26-27; 3:1-4; Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service.

  4. #1577
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    Sooooo.

    In other words, because there are a few people in the world who would do harm to others, either intentionally or inadvertently, the rest of us must sacrifice our rights?


    Idiocy.
    I would say the sign of a coward. Not calling anyone any names... just mentioning this belief/attitude is typical.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Galatians 2:20-21; Colossians 1: 21-22 & 26-27; 3:1-4; Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service.

  5. #1578
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    Since the Declaration of Independence is not truly a founding document, but rather exactly what its title says, a Declaration of our Independence from England, I'd take the constitution any day of the week.

    The Constitution and Bill of Rights are the founding documents of our Government.



    As Jmac asked, does the fact that I own a gun and it makes my neighbor nervous make me a lesser citizen?
    Respectfully JP... I would disagree with you;

    The Declaration of Independence IS a founding document... it declared independence from a ruling country, declared the people no longer were willing to accept being governed by that power, and these people chose to form their own government. The Constitution affirms many of the ideas and ideals in the Declaration.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Galatians 2:20-21; Colossians 1: 21-22 & 26-27; 3:1-4; Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service.

  6. #1579
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    Ag

    Am i right in saying, that you have right to pursue happiness, this one of the fundamentals? But your right should no interfere with another's right to pursue happiness?
    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    Would you say that there is concern from more than just an absolute minimum minority, this is to include pro and anti gun.?
    One cannot use the 'life, liberty, pursuit of happiness' argument in gun ownership... because gun ownership is addressed elsewhere in the Constitution (2nd amendment). So sorry, that argument is fruitless.

    As I said: You missed your calling; Really should move to DC...
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Galatians 2:20-21; Colossians 1: 21-22 & 26-27; 3:1-4; Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service.

  7. #1580
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    OK, I own several guns. Big shock, I know.

    They're across the room in a locked gun cabinet save for ONE that is kept readily accessible for defensive purposes.

    Now, let's plant a militant anti-gunner across the street from me. This person believes that I shouldn't own guns AT ALL.

    One could easily argue that my safe and responsible ownership of firearms is interfering with that person's "pursuit of happiness" while their radical position of gun ownership interferes with mine.

    So, do I hand over my guns or so they pull up their panties?
    Hmmm...

    Again... IMO since the 2nd amendment addresses gun ownership (not to be infringed); it would appear the guy across the street who has an attitude problem with JP... well it is HIS problem.

    To think the USA is a land where anyone can arrange for any law to be passed... is a misnomer of our system. Our system is about FREEDOM... with responsibility. And the borders of our country have doors that work both ways.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Galatians 2:20-21; Colossians 1: 21-22 & 26-27; 3:1-4; Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service.

  8. #1581
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    Quote Originally Posted by corny View Post
    http://www.newschannel5.com/story/20...er-gun-control

    Another good reason to turn those guns into plowshares..... this unhinged freak is supposed to be a professional who trains people......

    BTW.... Tenn took his ccw permit......lol They need to jail him and take his business too.....
    Lots of angry folks, This one guy sounds like he has a 45.

    45 IQ. There are plenty of others on both sides of the issue. Remember that anti-gun teacher who shot herself in the classroom several years ago to blame it on some SHOOTER? Nutty wench.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

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  9. #1582
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    Firstly I am pro-gun, but that does not mean, without restriction and responsibility by by the gun owner and law.

    So you are implying that I have no right to interact with others on the site!

    What i am is looking at the issue from a balanced point of view, you have assumed that I am anti gun, firstly I am pro people, after that comes other issues. Which leads back to my original question.

    "did not answer the simple question", which is the stronger legally and morally, the founding document or the second amendment. One or the other.
    It's real simple; every American has the Constitutional right and freedom from persecution to own and bear firearms....any firearms. There are laws that are designed to punish those who abuse our rights and freedoms. There are dozens of laws specifically designed to punish those who abuse the freedoms and rights for Americans to own and bear firearms.

    Government is not utilizing the available laws to do the job that government agents are being paid by working Americans to do. If government starts doing it's job properly, there is no need for government to attempt to disarm Americans.

    Crazies kill, and always will. Guns have nothing to do with crazies killing other than guns are one of dozens of ways that crazies kill. More crazy killing is done with fire, so guns are not even the top choice of crazies for killing.

    Those who are willing to use firearms to gain advantage over others with the intent to victimize others need to be prosecuted more harshly. Most killings using guns, somewhere in the range of 80%, are done by persons who have already been through the U.S. unjustice system.

    Bottom line; government does what government already has all of the tools to do, and government has no rational reason to abuse the U.S. Constitution and change the rights and freedoms of law abiding Americans. Gun laws only serve to create more crimininals.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  10. #1583
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    Firstly if you had the ability to understand, you would realize that I am talking about the rule of law and not emotions....
    Do you have no respect for the "law of the land"? The U.S. Constitution IS the rule of law, and some Americans are trying to change the ultimate rule of law by changing, ie; completely disrespecting the way the U.S. was set up to operate.

    It is our right to own and bear arms! I'm sorry if you don't like the fact that we have that right, but it is a right that has been an American right for centuries, and NOW...that right is being attacked.

    As for the rights of victims of gun violence; THEY ARE VICTIMS OF PERSONS COMMITTING CRIMES! We need to address the criminal, not the tools used by those criminals. Gun laws punish the law abiding and innocent Americans, not the crazies and criminals.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  11. #1584
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    OK, I own several guns. Big shock, I know.

    They're across the room in a locked gun cabinet save for ONE that is kept readily accessible for defensive purposes.

    Now, let's plant a militant anti-gunner across the street from me. This person believes that I shouldn't own guns AT ALL.

    One could easily argue that my safe and responsible ownership of firearms is interfering with that person's "pursuit of happiness" while their radical position of gun ownership interferes with mine.

    So, do I hand over my guns or so they pull up their panties?
    Firstly I would say that you are a responsible gun owner, but are you responsible out of choice or legal requirement. I am talking about you general security of your weapons. Does a gun owner have to by law have to have is guns secured, when the gun is not in his control?
    If law, then i see no issue, and the big girl can go and whistle, but what if it is by choice and you are not responsible, weapon laying around, then surely big girl would have a reason to worry.
    I see 4 ways to go
    1 Arm everybody to the back teeth
    2 Disarm all
    3 do nothing
    4 Formulate responsibility.

    I would choose 4. by what legal method is another question, as it should not directly effect the second.

  12. #1585
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    You seem to have a real problem with intellectuals, "did you know that jealousy is one of the deadly sins!"
    No it's not. Not in any version of so called seven deadly sins is jealousy mentioned.

    First off, the so called "deadly sins" is a Roman Catholic creation based on a Book of Proverbs blurb where some Jew leader (usually accredited to King Solomon) tells of things that God doesn't like (The Aramaic term that translates to "hate" is defined more accurately as meaning the same as "reject" in today's terminology), and jealousy is not there.

    So much for your accuracy of issues you post about.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  13. #1586
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Do you have no respect for the "law of the land"? The U.S. Constitution IS the rule of law, and some Americans are trying to change the ultimate rule of law by changing, ie; completely disrespecting the way the U.S. was set up to operate.

    It is our right to own and bear arms! I'm sorry if you don't like the fact that we have that right, but it is a right that has been an American right for centuries, and NOW...that right is being attacked.

    As for the rights of victims of gun violence; THEY ARE VICTIMS OF PERSONS COMMITTING CRIMES! We need to address the criminal, not the tools used by those criminals. Gun laws punish the law abiding and innocent Americans, not the crazies and criminals.
    Where Have I said, I do not like the right or do not respect the law of the land. It was more a case of which law or principle has the greater strength.

    I have given an example of a conflict, and asked which is the correct interpretation. You want people to learn and understand some Americans, then the only way to ask questions, even if you do not like the question. I am not being disrespectful.

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