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  1. #1470
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    Jun 2004
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    Eugene, Oregon
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    1,018
    I know the State of Oregon does a good job providing motorcycle training. I believe the State could do a good job training gun owners. And not just CCW permits. All gun owner should be trained.
    "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten". --Benjamin Franklin
    "Don't argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience". --Mark Twain
    http://www.campbellmechanical.com

  2. #1471
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
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    68,962
    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    It is right to bear arms, I am no even saying ban arms or this right is BS, only some of the points made are BS.
    In all but a couple of different laws ( I am not allowed to carry a side arms, but i am allowed to own many guns), I have the same rights, if not greater rights.
    No one has more rights than Americans, except those who do, and they are wrong to have rights.

    In all seriousness, this whole coversation is about nothing less than changing what the U.S. was designed to be all about in order to change the U.S. into something it was never meant to be.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  3. #1472
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
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    68,962
    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post
    any of you guys speak BS or Crackhead, I could use a translator here.
    I thought I was proficient in trippingese, but I can't understand corny's rantings either. I don't think it is either BS or drug related speak. I think it has to do with the firing order of brain cells.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  4. #1473
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Rochester, NY, USA
    Posts
    14,407
    Quote Originally Posted by air1 View Post
    I know the State of Oregon does a good job providing motorcycle training. I believe the State could do a good job training gun owners. And not just CCW permits. All gun owner should be trained.
    not many people will be doing any training for awhile. almost everything is very scarce do to the panic buying by the public.

    The greatest gun salesman of all time is pushing the limits of all manufacturers.

    One of the guys I shoot with at the club (I shoot every Wednesday night) works for a micro-manufacture of Modern sporting rifles. He said "on Dec 30th we had orders for 500 rifles, as of last Saturday they were up to 6000....business is good.

    The place I get my reloading supplies from is nearly bare of everything. Gun powder (all brands) is rationed, pistols are almost all gone, all the modern sporting rifles are gone. They have not had small pistol primers for over 6 weeks and don't expect any for a couple weeks,

    So if your looking to train anyone, you better all ready have everything you need, because you ain't going to find it in a store for quite sometime.
    LOVE has four letters

    So does BEER, DEER,GUNS AND FISH

  5. #1474
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    11,874
    Quote Originally Posted by Vonderbach View Post
    While I agree that many officers are out of shape, that really doesn't influence their firearm proficiency. Yes, it can lead to other issues, but you stated above that you consider most cops to be novice shooters, which is hard to corroborate from anecdotal incidents. I'm not sure how you arrived at this conclusion, whether is was during your time as an officer or later, but perhaps your county was extremely lax in officer training? Were you in a rural area perhaps? One with more relaxed requirements?
    01/12/13
    HOUSTON -

    Police say an officer, in fear for his life, fired a shot at an armed suspect during a robbery attempt at the Radio Shack.

    According to Houston Police Department spokesperson Kese Smith, Saturday night, an HPD officer, in uniform, was working an approved extra security job at the Radio Shack located at 1018 Gessner near I-10.

    Smith says the officer was staged in a room behind the counter monitoring who was coming into and out of the front door.

    Around 8:40 p.m., the officer was talking to the clerk when he witnessed a suspicious male wearing a hoodie come through the front door, says Smith.

    Smith says it is believed there were three robbery suspects in the store all together.

    Police say that as the officer went to the doorway of the room behind the counter to investigate, he was confronted by one masked suspect.

    Smith says the officer and suspect were about six inches apart when the masked individual pointed a gun at the officer.

    The officer, fearing for his life, drew his duty weapon and fired one time says Smith. Smith says it is not believed the suspect was struck by the bullet.

    Two suspects fled out the back and another fled out the front door and a pistol was recovered at the scene, says Smith. The officer was uninjured.

    Police say that as is customary in all officer involved shootings, the case will be investigated by HPD homicide, the district attorney's office and internal affairs.

  6. #1475
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    11,874
    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post
    not many people will be doing any training for awhile. almost everything is very scarce do to the panic buying by the public.

    The greatest gun salesman of all time is pushing the limits of all manufacturers.

    One of the guys I shoot with at the club (I shoot every Wednesday night) works for a micro-manufacture of Modern sporting rifles. He said "on Dec 30th we had orders for 500 rifles, as of last Saturday they were up to 6000....business is good.

    The place I get my reloading supplies from is nearly bare of everything. Gun powder (all brands) is rationed, pistols are almost all gone, all the modern sporting rifles are gone. They have not had small pistol primers for over 6 weeks and don't expect any for a couple weeks,

    So if your looking to train anyone, you better all ready have everything you need, because you ain't going to find it in a store for quite sometime.


    http://www.myfoxhouston.com/story/20...les-in-houston

    Notice the one greenhorn with a finger, in the finger guard.

  7. #1476
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon
    Posts
    1,018
    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post
    not many people will be doing any training for awhile. almost everything is very scarce do to the panic buying by the public.

    The greatest gun salesman of all time is pushing the limits of all manufacturers.

    One of the guys I shoot with at the club (I shoot every Wednesday night) works for a micro-manufacture of Modern sporting rifles. He said "on Dec 30th we had orders for 500 rifles, as of last Saturday they were up to 6000....business is good.

    The place I get my reloading supplies from is nearly bare of everything. Gun powder (all brands) is rationed, pistols are almost all gone, all the modern sporting rifles are gone. They have not had small pistol primers for over 6 weeks and don't expect any for a couple weeks,

    So if your looking to train anyone, you better all ready have everything you need, because you ain't going to find it in a store for quite sometime.
    I don't think training would be affected by any shortages. The training would not be related to marksmanship but rather safety and responsibility. Gun owners need to be aware of gun laws and the potential dangers of having a gun in the home or on ones person. People need to understand a gun is not a toy and that with gun ownership comes responsibilities and liabilities.
    Personally, being around people carrying loaded firearms just because they can, makes me uncomfortable. While hunting or at a target range I don't feel uncomfortable because I don't feel any aggression towards me. But in a situation where there is no need for a gun but someone feels they need to carry a loaded weapon just because they can is a very aggressive gesture. To me people that feel that they need to carry their guns to town are immature. I don't think guns are necessary in a civilized society.
    But I respect the law of the land and if the law says people have the right to carry then I must accept it. But I would feel better knowing that the people carrying the guns were responsible and trained, citizens. There seems to be a lot of gun owners that have some kind of cowboy fantasy of walking around packing and behaving like they were in the wild wild west. To me, those type of people are suffering from a form of mental illness and should not be allowed to have a gun. Only people that understand and believe in the constitutional reason for the 2nd amendment and the responsibilities of a armed citizen should be allowed to have a gun. IMO. People on some fan fantasy of being a gun slinging cowboy on a power trip should be the last type of people allowed to have guns.
    "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten". --Benjamin Franklin
    "Don't argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience". --Mark Twain
    http://www.campbellmechanical.com

  8. #1477
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Kaufman county, Texas
    Posts
    10,407
    Quote Originally Posted by air1 View Post
    I don't think training would be affected by any shortages. The training would not be related to marksmanship but rather safety and responsibility. Gun owners need to be aware of gun laws and the potential dangers of having a gun in the home or on ones person. People need to understand a gun is not a toy and that with gun ownership comes responsibilities and liabilities.
    Personally, being around people carrying loaded firearms just because they can, makes me uncomfortable. While hunting or at a target range I don't feel uncomfortable because I don't feel any aggression towards me. But in a situation where there is no need for a gun but someone feels they need to carry a loaded weapon just because they can is a very aggressive gesture. To me people that feel that they need to carry their guns to town are immature. I don't think guns are necessary in a civilized society.
    But I respect the law of the land and if the law says people have the right to carry then I must accept it. But I would feel better knowing that the people carrying the guns were responsible and trained, citizens. There seems to be a lot of gun owners that have some kind of cowboy fantasy of walking around packing and behaving like they were in the wild wild west. To me, those type of people are suffering from a form of mental illness and should not be allowed to have a gun. Only people that understand and believe in the constitutional reason for the 2nd amendment and the responsibilities of a armed citizen should be allowed to have a gun. IMO. People on some fan fantasy of being a gun slinging cowboy on a power trip should be the last type of people allowed to have guns.
    I sort of agree with you on principal Air1. Training/gun safety/gun law should be taught in schools. That is a good idea.

    I would not agree on mandatory classes for ownership. That is indeed a licensing process. You can call it a 'class', but being required it would be basically a licensing process.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

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  9. #1478
    Quote Originally Posted by the dangling wrangler View Post
    01/12/13
    Police say an officer, in fear for his life, fired a shot at an armed suspect during a robbery attempt at the Radio Shack

    ................................

    Smith says it is not believed the suspect was struck by the bullet.
    I'm not sure how this proves that most cops are novice shooters? This is massively anecdotal evidence and says nothing about the hundreds of thousands of other trained officers.

  10. #1479
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Rochester, NY, USA
    Posts
    14,407
    Quote Originally Posted by air1 View Post
    I don't think training would be affected by any shortages. The training would not be related to marksmanship but rather safety and responsibility. Gun owners need to be aware of gun laws and the potential dangers of having a gun in the home or on ones person. People need to understand a gun is not a toy and that with gun ownership comes responsibilities and liabilities.
    Personally, being around people carrying loaded firearms just because they can, makes me uncomfortable. While hunting or at a target range I don't feel uncomfortable because I don't feel any aggression towards me. But in a situation where there is no need for a gun but someone feels they need to carry a loaded weapon just because they can is a very aggressive gesture. To me people that feel that they need to carry their guns to town are immature. I don't think guns are necessary in a civilized society.
    But I respect the law of the land and if the law says people have the right to carry then I must accept it. But I would feel better knowing that the people carrying the guns were responsible and trained, citizens. There seems to be a lot of gun owners that have some kind of cowboy fantasy of walking around packing and behaving like they were in the wild wild west. To me, those type of people are suffering from a form of mental illness and should not be allowed to have a gun. Only people that understand and believe in the constitutional reason for the 2nd amendment and the responsibilities of a armed citizen should be allowed to have a gun. IMO. People on some fan fantasy of being a gun slinging cowboy on a power trip should be the last type of people allowed to have guns.
    I agree also, to a point. This "wild west" thing pops up every-now-and-then and seriously don't get it. IDK whats going on west of the Mississippi or down south, but around New England you won't find any nonsense. We must carry concealed, IDK anyone that goes around looking for trouble or tries to act like a rent-a-cop. It maybe because everyone I hang out with carries a firearm? I seriously don't get it? Maybe I need a new gun club???
    LOVE has four letters

    So does BEER, DEER,GUNS AND FISH

  11. #1480
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    21,523
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    See, just like I said, you guys haven’t learned anything from her. You still defend keeping firearms unsecured, as though they must be unsecured to be able to be “used daily to thwart crimes.” Well let me tell you something, a gun in a safe is just as useful as one kept under your pillow. But actually it makes all of us much safer because we don’t have to worry about that gun getting into the black market.

    Like is said, it is not just a two-hundred to two-thousand dollar loss when they get stolen. It is possibly in the millions. But don’t worry, it isn’t your "millions".

    Let me beat you to your response. "Safes are not 100% effective so let's pretend they are 0% effective."
    MeThinks someone has a pre-conceived idea they 'think' everyone else is supposed to get... However they do not understand everyone does not think the same as they do. Typical liberal... not capable of thinking outside their little box. Shame... such good brains limited by liberalism.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  12. #1481
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    21,523
    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    Perhaps, it is because the NRA has more decency than the average liberal, Brian.

    A woman has died and you're rubbing salt into that wound.


    You've posted more untruths and half-truths in the past couple days that I'm beginning to doubt your sanity.


    Let's look logically at this.

    My gun is in my safe. Homeboy busts into my home at 3AM. How fast can I get to the safe, unlock it, remove a gun, LOAD it and bring it to action?

    How much time do I have?
    Brian does not care about this... The ONLY thing Brian cares about is his crusade of locking up guns... Classic textbook liberalism: Set out on a crusade and throw out hundreds of babies with the bathwater... just to get one little spec of dirt cleaned up. These folks cannot see the forest for the trees...

    What scares the heck out of me is these idiots vote.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  13. #1482
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Rochester, NY, USA
    Posts
    14,407
    A LITTLE BIT OF HISTORY TO THINK ABOUT.......December 29, 2012 marks the 122nd Anniversary of the murder of 297 Sioux Indians at Wounded Knee Creek on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation in South Dakota. These 297 people, in their winter camp, were murdered by federal agents and members of the 7th Cavalry who had come to confiscate their firearms “for their own safety and protection”. The slaughter began after the majority of the Sioux had peacefully turned in their firearms. The Calvary began shooting, and managed to wipe out the entire camp. 200 of the 297 victims were women and children. About 40 members of the 7th Cavalry were killed, but over half of them were victims of fratricide from the Hotchkiss guns of their overzealous comrades-in-arms. Twenty members of the 7th Cavalry's death squad, were deemed “National Heroes” and were awarded the Medal of Honor for their acts of [cowardice] heroism.

    We hear very little of Wounded Knee today. It is usually not mentioned in our history classes or books. What little that does exist about Wounded Knee is normally a sanitized “Official Government Explanation”. And there are several historically inaccurate depictions of the events leading up to the massacre, which appear in movie scripts and are not the least bit representative of the actual events that took place that day.

    Wounded Knee was among the first federally backed gun confiscation attempts in United States history. It ended in the senseless murder of 297 people.

    Before you jump on the emotionally charged bandwagon for gun-control, take a moment to reflect on the real purpose of the Second Amendment, the right of the people to take up arms in defense of themselves, their families, and property in the face of invading armies or an oppressive government. The argument that the Second Amendment only applies to hunting and target shooting is asinine. When the United States Constitution was drafted, “hunting” was an everyday chore carried out by men and women to put meat on the table each night, and “target shooting” was an unheard of concept. Musket balls were a precious commodity and were certainly not wasted on “target shooting”. The Second Amendment was written by people who fled oppressive and tyrannical regimes in Europe, and it refers to the right of American citizens to be armed for defensive purposes, should such tyranny arise in the United States.

    As time goes forward, the average citizen in the United States continually loses little chunks of personal freedom or “liberty”. Far too many times, unjust gun control bills were passed and signed into law under the guise of “for your safety” or “for protection”. The Patriot Act signed into law by G.W. Bush, was expanded and continues under Barack Obama. It is just one of many examples of American citizens being stripped of their rights and privacy for “safety”. Now, the Right to Keep and Bear Arms is on the table, and will, most likely be attacked to facilitate the path for the removal of our firearms, all in the name of “our safety”.

    Before any American citizen blindly accepts whatever new firearms legislation that is about to be doled out, they should stop and think about something for just one minute-
    Evil does exist in our world. It always has and always will. Throughout history evil people have committed evil acts. In the Bible one of the first stories is that of Cain killing Abel. We can not legislate “evil” into extinction. Good people will abide by the law, and the criminal element will always find a way around it.

    Evil exists all around us, but looking back at the historical record of the past 200 years, across the globe, where is “evil” and “malevolence” most often found? In the hands of those with the power, the governments. That greatest human tragedies on record and the largest loss of innocent human life can be attributed to governments. Who do the governments always target? “Scapegoats” and “enemies” within their own borders…but only after they have been disarmed to the point where they are no longer a threat. Ask any Native American, and they will tell you it was inferior technology and lack of arms that contributed to their demise. Ask any Armenian why it was so easy for the Turks to exterminate millions of them, and they will answer “We were disarmed before it happened”. Ask any Jew what Hitler’s first step prior to the mass murders of the Holocaust was- confiscation of firearms from the people.

    Wounded Knee is the prime example of why the Second Amendment exists, and why we should vehemently resist any attempts to infringe on our Rights to Bear Arms. Without the Second Amendment we will be totally stripped of any ability to defend ourselves and our families. Jeffrey E.
    LOVE has four letters

    So does BEER, DEER,GUNS AND FISH

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