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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    10
    I'm in the process of purchasing a 3.5 ton system (type/model still unknown - until say midnight) and I'm told by one of the three vendors I've spoken to that if I'm to purchase a system with a seer rating of higher than 14.5 that I might need to purchase an R410 system instead of a r22 and, if so, will need to "swap out" the existing copper in my home. My house is 10 years old. Is this correct?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    PA/DE area
    Posts
    1,535
    it is recommended,due to oils also size of line may need to be larger.They can be flushed if they are the right size.
    It's NOT the BRAND,it's the company that installs it!!!!!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,914
    I think the Trane XL15i and XL19i may be the only R-22 systems out there that go 15 SEER and higher on R-22.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    10
    As I've indicated in another post I'm purchasing a Goodman system and I'm not sure if the "system" is 15 seer or if it's just one of the components. If so, I'm again confused as I'm not sure if it's possible to have one component that's that high while the rest remains "within r22 range". Thanks guys and again, any help is appreciated.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Amory Mississippi
    Posts
    1,002
    If you have not already purchased it, re-evaluate. 410a systems give you more efficiency with smaller size. yes you have to change the line set. Yes it will cost more, but you will get more for your money.
    JMO

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Emerald Coast, FL 30.1N 85.8W
    Posts
    681

    Frown Do you need a 3.5 ton system?

    I get nervous reading some of these posts about residential system tonnage, especially the ones in the 3-5 ton range.

    Since most AHU's are designed around 0.5 SP, an oversized tonnage system is ridiculousy inefficient.

    Originally posted by tpa05
    I'm in the process of purchasing a 3.5 ton system (type/model still unknown - until say midnight) and I'm told by one of the three vendors I've spoken to that if I'm to purchase a system with a seer rating of higher than 14.5 that I might need to purchase an R410 system instead of a r22 and, if so, will need to "swap out" the existing copper in my home. My house is 10 years old. Is this correct?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    10
    My home is 2000 sqft one level. The existing unit is 3.5 tons as are most of the homes in my subdivision. Home size also matches mine as the average is between 1900 and 2100 sqft. Not sure if this is done as a rote exercise as these values match those detailed in all Zone 1 homes. I live in Florida.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Emerald Coast, FL 30.1N 85.8W
    Posts
    681
    where at in Florida -- I'm in Panama City Beach.

    I spoke with a GC today building a high-end 2 level home. The 1st floor is 1800-2000 sf and I questioned him installing a 2.5 ton unit on the lower level(2nd level will have a seperate unit). He said that they will be downsizing to a 2 ton unit. The house will have R-30 insulation.

    All I'm saying is please be prudent when purchasing your new system -- the higher SEER rating might allow you to operate a smaller, thus more efficient unit.


    Originally posted by tpa05
    My home is 2000 sqft one level. The existing unit is 3.5 tons as are most of the homes in my subdivision. Home size also matches mine as the average is between 1900 and 2100 sqft. Not sure if this is done as a rote exercise as these values match those detailed in all Zone 1 homes. I live in Florida.
    [Edited by emcoasthvacr on 11-28-2006 at 09:04 PM]

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,295
    Originally posted by emcoasthvacr
    I spoke with a GC today building a high-end 2 level home.

    The 1st floor is 1800-2000 sf and I questioned him installing a 2.5 ton unit on the lower level
    (2nd level will have a seperate unit).

    He said that they will be downsizing to a 2 ton unit.
    The house will have R-30 insulation.

    All I'm saying is please be prudent when purchasing your new system -- the higher SEER rating might allow you to operate a smaller, thus more efficient unit.

    Originally posted by tpa05
    The existing unit is 3.5 tons as are most of the homes in my subdivision.

    Home size also matches mine as the average is between 1900 and 2100 sqft. Not sure if this is done as a rote exercise as these values match those detailed in all Zone 1 homes. I live in Florida.
    [Edited by emcoasthvacr on 11-28-2006 at 09:04 PM]
    EM,

    1. 2-ton for 2,000 Sq. Feet is likely NOT an acceptable selection ( unless the house does not have any windows and ACH is < 0.15).

    2. Higher SEER has NOTHING to do with capacity!
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Emerald Coast, FL 30.1N 85.8W
    Posts
    681

    2 tons is enough for lower level

    Don't know what part of Florida you're at(SE,SW, central, panhandle).

    The windows are low LOE windows, and since we're on the beach, temps rarely get above 90 degrees. In addition, the front & back porches are facing the rise & fall of the sun. The windows are facing the North & South; moreover, the Medjool Palms (175k for those puppies) provide shading. I believe the roof & 2nd floor are rated at R-55, and I need to double check the 2nd floor tonnage.

    The 2nd floor heating load and insulation in the roof dictates what tonnage is required on the lower floor.

    The builder designs homes above 1 mill, so I trust his 30 years experience and his P.E's that agreed with the 2 ton.

    Your right in that SEER doesn't dictate capacity, it just delivers it at lower costs -- didn't think I worded the sentance like that.



    [QUOTE]Originally posted by dan sw fl
    [B][QUOTE]Originally posted by emcoasthvacr
    [B]I spoke with a GC today building a high-end 2 level home.

    The 1st floor is 1800-2000 sf and I questioned him installing a 2.5 ton unit on the lower level
    (2nd level will have a seperate unit).

    He said that they will be downsizing to a 2 ton unit.
    The house will have R-30 insulation.

    All I'm saying is please be prudent when purchasing your new system -- the higher SEER rating might allow you to operate a smaller, thus more efficient unit.

    Originally posted by tpa05
    The existing unit is 3.5 tons as are most of the homes in my subdivision.

    Home size also matches mine as the average is between 1900 and 2100 sqft. Not sure if this is done as a rote exercise as these values match those detailed in all Zone 1 homes. I live in Florida.
    [Edited by emcoasthvacr on 11-29-2006 at 07:09 PM]

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    7,680
    Originally posted by tpa05
    As I've indicated in another post I'm purchasing a Goodman system and I'm not sure if the "system" is 15 seer or if it's just one of the components. If so, I'm again confused as I'm not sure if it's possible to have one component that's that high while the rest remains "within r22 range". Thanks guys and again, any help is appreciated.
    The refrigerant plays a very, very small part of the higher efficiencies. The reason you dont see much R-22 in the ultra high efficiency stuff has more to do with economics. The manufacturers can no longer sell systems with R-22 in them come January 2010. It costs alot of money in research and development to develop a product so it makes little sense to develop one that will go away in a couple years. In most cases, they would never see a payback.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Emerald Coast, FL 30.1N 85.8W
    Posts
    681

    doc holiday to the rescue...lol

    All my air conditioning & heat pumps on my properties are R-22. I'm not a fan of R410a, but I quess I'll have to be sooner or later.

    My main concern with R410a is not only the higher system pressures and subsequent component stress but also the higher costs of recovery, recycle, and reclaim that will accrue due to the varying vapor pressures of the R410a mixture.

    I also don't understand why residential customers have to bear the burden when the commercial & industrial entities are allowed to spew out tons of CFC's legally each year.






    Originally posted by docholiday
    Originally posted by tpa05
    As I've indicated in another post I'm purchasing a Goodman system and I'm not sure if the "system" is 15 seer or if it's just one of the components. If so, I'm again confused as I'm not sure if it's possible to have one component that's that high while the rest remains "within r22 range". Thanks guys and again, any help is appreciated.
    The refrigerant plays a very, very small part of the higher efficiencies. The reason you dont see much R-22 in the ultra high efficiency stuff has more to do with economics. The manufacturers can no longer sell systems with R-22 in them come January 2010. It costs alot of money in research and development to develop a product so it makes little sense to develop one that will go away in a couple years. In most cases, they would never see a payback.
    [Edited by emcoasthvacr on 11-29-2006 at 09:05 PM]

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Pensacola, Florida
    Posts
    304
    Again higer efficiency has nothing to do with capacity.

    A 15 SEER 2 ton unit is 2 tons.

    A 13 SEER 2 ton unit is 2 tons.

    Torch Man

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