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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    17,923
    I'm puzzling over the behavior of a Honeywell R4184D primary control. If the burner is left alone for several hours, on return the primary will be locked out. A press of the button and all is well for another march of hours, and so on. New filter, reset electrodes, recent oil delivery from a good company.

    Since I am told that Honeywell no longer manufacturers this part number (R4184D) does that fact suggest that this model has a problem with failure?

    Is this a typical failure mode for this uinit?

    One company (Ground Heaters) used the R4184D, and lists the replacement part as R8184G. Is there a better choice?

    Any thoughts about this? How would you approach this problem?

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Naples, Fla.
    Posts
    1,403
    The Primary Controller is a sophisticated safety control system that employees light sensing technology vs. flue temp to allow safe start up and protection from adding fuel in the event of a poor or no burn scenario.

    There are no consumer serviceable parts, a qualified tech can run a battery of test & periodic maintenance to keep you warm & safe.

    If the safety control is tripping (as you've described) it's doing its job, protecting you & your home. A faulty ground, loose connection or failure of the pump to prime can cause nuisance shutdowns - your tech will know how to handle this.

    Please DO NOT attempt repairs on your own.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,766
    You didn't give alot of info aout the unit. Or what you tested.

    nozzle new or old.
    Cad cell ohms, is it clean.
    Oil pump pressure.
    Oil pump vacuum.
    Single or 2 pipe.
    Single stage, or 2 stage pump.
    Excess oil in chamber when you push the reset button, or not.
    Porecelains inspected for cracks.
    Tank above or below burner.
    CO2%,CO%,Stack temp,Smoke test, Draft over fire.


    It may sound like alot of measurements, but they all help to determine the problem.
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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    17,923
    My bad.

    I have been repairing heating, refrigeration and air conditioning since 1992.

    Guess I should call someone who's qualified.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    7,680
    No, what they are saying is, if you are a pro, post it in the pro section. If you only do side jobs or are a DIYer, then you got your answer.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    17,923
    Well, I'm only asking about the service history that you have seen from the R4184, but I'm happy to answer.

    nozzle new or old. old, clean, good flame. .85x80A, delavan.

    Cad cell ohms, is it clean. Normal light and dark specs, very clean

    Oil pump pressure. 145
    Oil pump vacuum. not measured
    Single or 2 pipe. Single.
    Single stage, or 2 stage pump. single
    Excess oil in chamber when you push the reset button, or not. No.
    Porecelains inspected for cracks. Inspected and reset.
    Tank above or below burner. Above
    CO2%,CO%,Stack temp,Smoke test, Draft over fire. Not measured.

    The reason I am asking is the reference I found in a flowchart that asks if the control is an R4184, and if the answer is "yes," the recommendation that it should be replaced.

    I'm trying to determine if this is a problematic control before making additional tests. I just like having a lot of information available, and I thought this would be a good forum to ask about it.

    I had posted this in "controls," and someone recommended that I post the question here. Maybe that wasn't a good idea.

    ;-)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    7,680
    Try the pro section..Maybe one of the mods will move it for you.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,766
    Just me, but I preffer to do the test, and then base what I do by the results of the test.

    The control itself is not common around here, but the few that are aroud are reliable.

    A clean looking flame still could be trouble.
    Need the combustion test to tell you if its burning right.
    Could be too clean.

    Register as a pro, then you can post in the pro tech forum after the comittee aproves you, its free.
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  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    17,923
    Okay, fair enough. I now have an answer to my question, but I'm left puzzled by the manufacturer who, after a few rudimentary tests (none of which include pump pressure of flue gas checks) recommends the replacement of the R4184D with the more recent R8184G 4009 design. It seems like the manufacturer is suggesting that unit has a problem, so I thought I'd plumb those depths here.

    I like to proceed based on testing, too. While I prefer to avoid the approach of making a "known good" substitution (which was an accepted technique for finding bad tubes when I serviced TV's in my twenties, back in the 1970's) I have come to realize that there are definite patterns of reliability and failures accross a wide spectrum of disciplines, from automotive (the GM ECM's of the late 1980's and 1990's) aviation (tail problems on the V-tail Bonanza, which is otherwise a great little airplane and much more fun to fly than a Learjet) and modern televisions (such as the RCA brand under new owner, Thomson SA).

    So many designs have problematic patterns that it is often easy to determine a failure based on the raw data and experience than it is it to test for a long time to prove what one knows instinctively, and in the case of Ground Heaters, empirically, based on a troubleshooting flowchart.

    Thanks for your time.


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,766
    I know what you mean.

    the things I have listed, take less then an hour to perform.

    no where on that flow chart will you see it say a 5 CO2 is ok.
    Nor it will it say 1650 ohms is ok.
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  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Grottoes VA
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    5,856
    There is only one differance between the 4184 and the 8184. The replacement choice should be obvious.
    Karst means cave. So, I search for caves.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
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    Originally posted by karsthuntr
    There is only one differance between the 4184 and the 8184. The replacement choice should be obvious.
    Yep. You can't buy the R4184 anymore.

    and

    the things I have listed, take less then an hour to perform.

    no where on that flow chart will you see it say a 5 CO2 is ok.
    Nor it will it say 1650 ohms is ok.
    True.

    Of course, that wasn't the question I asked, but I found the attitude of the respondents very instructive.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    717
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by timebuilder
    [
    Of course, that wasn't the question I asked, but I found the attitude of the respondents very instructive. [/B]
    ************************************************** ******
    And that seems to be the general attitude from the majority of these "so-called pros"

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