School shootings

[timebuilder]

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative...e-2511412.html

read it and think about it a little.

Nobody is saying that EVERY teacher should be armed, but rather that teachers should have the CHOICE to arm themselves.

As the law stands today, they do not have that CHOICE.

Correct.

A potential shooter should have no idea just who has a weapon, or what kind. It's the idea that someone will stop him before he gets to accomplish his purpose that acts as the deterrent, not merely that he could be killed, because that is not usually a concern for these guys. They are not worried about their own fate, but they DO want to get their own havoc imposed before they go.

How many people who have carry permits just "have a bad day" and go shooting up a place? Have you EVER heard of that? I have never heard of such an occurrence, which means that if that has happened, it is RARE.

At my academy (where the movie Taps was filmed, btw) we had lots and lots of guns, and we never had one incident where a weapon was discharged anywhere but the range or a ceremonial firing, like a funeral. You would think that in 80+ years, and a corps of over a thousand students, that it would have happened at least once, right?

Nope.

So teachers having a gun? Yes. I'm more than okay with that idea.

[kamersoutdoor]

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative...e-2511412.html

read it and think about it a little.

Nobody is saying that EVERY teacher should be armed, but rather that teachers should have the CHOICE to arm themselves.

As the law stands today, they do not have that CHOICE.

Not much to argue with there!!!!
Wonder how many will take the time to read it?

sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note

[2sac]

http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/12...ers-carry.html

[number88]

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative...e-2511412.html

read it and think about it a little.

Nobody is saying that EVERY teacher should be armed, but rather that teachers should have the CHOICE to arm themselves.

As the law stands today, they do not have that CHOICE.

I understand your argument. Nothing would be full proof. But more guns doesnt solve it this issue has multiple layers. Mental health, assault weapons and the access we have to them, school safety, etc... The guns used in this tragedy and the one in aurora colorado were purchased legally. Im not anti gun as I have had an M4 for a while now. Im against schools being unsafe. A few resource officers armed at every school is fine. When the shooting at the mall in oregon happened no one said the people at the verizon kiosks and the food court should be armed. If a few select people who are responsible want to carry a weapon thats fine but how can we really determine who is reponsible and we cannot control anyones mind so how do we know if a person is 100% stable or not? The kid who was killed for playing loud music at a gas station was killed by a guy with a permit if I remember correctly. If that gun is not in that guys possession there would have never been an argument about the music. But since he had a weapon he felt bold he didnt act in protection he attacked someone who had no.way to defend himself.

[SeanH]

I carry. I have never had to be read my meranda rights. I'm not the one you need to be afraid of. In fact, it is me, or someone like me, that may save your sorry, feel good liberal ass one day. Then you'll be thanking God that we do carry.

If everybody had this attitude, the US would be safer. All you anti-gunners out there want the government to take control and make new laws to keep this from happening again. Most of you don't even know the difference between a semi- automatic, and an automatic. Most of you for some reason think that an AR-15 can do way more damage than a .45 pistol. Instead of sitting on your ass and *****ing about our gun laws, do some research on these weapons, go to a gun store and get one, take responsibility for yourself and your family and train train train, so that when **** hits the fan, your not waiting on the government to take charge, you can do it yourself.
If everyone thought this way, crazies wouldn't get away with this crap. When was the last time you heard of a mass shooting at a police station, or a military base. Don't even bring up ft hood. That was an inside attack. I'm talking about someone breaching the base from the outside in.

[rojacman]

I just emailed a couple of congressman in my district to consider passing new legislation.
It's not for gun control. I don't believe in that.
But I do believe that we can make schools safer by two ways.
One locking down every school during session. Yes the kids can go outside for recess. But no one can just walk in without showing ID and being buzzed in by the administration.
Second would be to post an armed guard at the door to every school building.
I realize it would be a huge financial burden but its worth it. I would even ve willing to pay more in taxes to make this happen. Our kids are worth it.
Third, former military personnel would get top priority for these positions. We have too many unemployed vets that are looking for work. This would be a boost for them and our economy by employing thousands of guards.
If you agree email your congressman.

right on Mr Chaard....our friends are visiting their granddaughter in Israel and he sent back a picture of a classroom teacher (female) teaching a class of young ones with an assault weapon hanging on her....never happen here , so your idea is golden...Jack

[timebuilder]

I understand your argument. Nothing would be full proof. But more guns doesnt solve it this issue has multiple layers. Mental health, assault weapons and the access we have to them, school safety, etc... The guns used in this tragedy and the one in aurora colorado were purchased legally. Im not anti gun as I have had an M4 for a while now. Im against schools being unsafe. A few resource officers armed at every school is fine. When the shooting at the mall in oregon happened no one said the people at the verizon kiosks and the food court should be armed. If a few select people who are responsible want to carry a weapon thats fine but how can we really determine who is reponsible and we cannot control anyones mind so how do we know if a person is 100% stable or not? The kid who was killed for playing loud music at a gas station was killed by a guy with a permit if I remember correctly. If that gun is not in that guys possession there would have never been an argument about the music. But since he had a weapon he felt bold he didnt act in protection he attacked someone who had no.way to defend himself.

Actually, there are no "multiple layers."

You and I cannot buy an assault weapon. No one can, legally. Assault weapons have a full auto capability. We can only buy weapons that LOOK like assault weapons. The Bushmaster is a semi-automatic weapon, just like the majority of rifles that are not bolt action.

The weapons used in Aurora were stolen by the shooters. Stolen, from the rightful owners.

The only real layer is the duty of our society to protect the average citizen, including school children, from crazy people.

It is indeed, that simple.

The ability of non-crazy people to carry a weapon to defend themselves against the crazy is KEY.

The occasion of abuse with a gun is part of the price we pay, willingly, as a free society. If you have a link to a story of someone with a carry permit committing a crime with their weapon, it will be the first such account I have seen. Please forward a link to that story.

[Control Man]

It is a VERY SAD thing to have happened.

And yet everyone forgets that its not just the CRAZY'S , even the PROS make mistakes when it comes to RETURN FIRE , remember the shootings in NYC back in August reulting in 2 dead and 8 bystanders were wounded, possibly all of them by police bullets.

[timebuilder]

It is a VERY SAD thing to have happened.

And yet everyone forgets that its not just the CRAZY'S , even the PROS make mistakes when it comes to RETURN FIRE , remember the shootings in NYC back in August reulting in 2 dead and 8 bystanders were wounded, possibly all of them by police bullets.

There is no way for imperfect Man to make this a perfect world.

Protecting ourselves from the mentally unstable is, no pun intended, a "no brainer."

[2sac]

There is no way for imperfect Man to make this a perfect world.

Protecting ourselves from the mentally unstable is, no pun intended, a "no brainer."

Interesting read http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2311009.html

[timebuilder]

Interesting read http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2311009.html

Old news to me.

[forged alloy]

It's interesting how liberal's first response to tragedy is restricting freedoms, while conservatives tend to look towards opposite solutions.

If as a society we decided to make our school's as safe as we can in a free society, we could. I believe a good percentage of teachers and administrators would be happy and willing to train up. Local police departments could arrange for the training, both initial and ongoing programs. They would probably be delighted for the community involvement. The suggestion about vets getting involved also makes a lot of sense, especially if they had MP training.

What we will get is some liberal feel good non solution like a Brady bill, that our leaders can point to come election time.

[timebuilder]

It's interesting how liberal's first response to tragedy is restricting freedoms, while conservatives tend to look towards opposite solutions.

If as a society we decided to make our school's as safe as we can in a free society, we could. I believe a good percentage of teachers and administrators would be happy and willing to train up. Local police departments could arrange for the training, both initial and ongoing programs. They would probably be delighted for the community involvement. The suggestion about vets getting involved also makes a lot of sense, especially if they had MP training.

What we will get is some liberal feel good non solution like a Brady bill, that our leaders can point to come election time.

I feel genuinely sorry for Jim Brady. The Bill named for him is very unfortunate, because it does nothing to keep people like Hinckley from getting a weapon illegally.

In fact, no bill can keep someone from getting a gun illegally.

BUT we can keep a demented person like Hinckley, or Lanza, from getting ANY gun. That's what I have been talking about.

[durussel78]

Violence.
My kids school, my other kids daycare are locked and you must get buzzed in. The schools I work for are locked and you must report to the main office (preFridays ordeal).
This kid in connecticut shot his way through a door.... he was not getting stopped, he wanted in!
Would it be nice if every weapon on earth was melted.... sure
Would it be nice if every single person was armed.......sure
Would it be nice to have a school operate more like a military base......sure
Those are not the solutions friends, we all have opinions, we currently have 8 pages of them alone on this site. There is not one of use (tradesmen or woman) that would have not have ran at this kid with an assault rifle when he ran at the school, I think most of use would have just reacted to this guy, same as the fellow in Colorado.
We need to have better control of our kids, sounds to me like all of these shooting cases could have been intervined by a professional or mom and dad collaborating on a solution to help their kids out. We dont view mental health as a serious problem until BS like this occurs.
My solution:
Get help for these kids!!
Mom and Dad need to get sh$$ together and pay more attention to bobby who is disconnected from the world, find what is going on!
Ban high capacity clips, why does a person need a 30 round magazine!! We are not in the congo or the desert or at war are we?
Ban assault rifles, why the f do we need these damn things around, I am armed at my home with hand guns and rifles (hunting), someone breaks into my home my first action is to get kids into my and my wifes bedroom and barricade the room, call cops, then pull out the hand gun as a last resort. That is all I need is to kill a 15 year old kid becouse he wanted to take a few of my things.
So,
Ban assault weapons
Ban high capacity magazines
Get help for mentally sick kids
Mom and Dad take charge and responsibility!!!

[Boabcelt]

As somebody from a country with very low levels of gun ownership, and extremely low levels of gun crime,(5 murders in 2011/12 and 11 attempted murders) I have read these pages with fascination. We have had tragedy in the not too distant past, at Dunblane primary school (about 25miles from my home) and afterwards the recriminations all centered on the treatment, or lack thereof of the gunmans mental health. Not once was there a call for armed guards or every citizen to have access to weapons. Infact, gun ownership became far more difficult, even air rifles being banned. If there is extremely restricted access to firearms, and appropriate medical care for the mentally ill, then surely these incidents can be almost eradicated?

[Dallas Duster]

I think there should be a mandate like the new health insurance law!!!!

Many of you may not like this idea but if everyone carried a gun this guy would have been stopped. People need to train themselves on how to use and carry a firearm. People would think twice before committing crimes if they knew they were taking a big chance pulling out a gun.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[isuredo]

Just like pilots are armed in airplanes, why, to protect the lives of passengers. we always seem to think its the gun that is the problem, when in fact its our society and the way anyone can be a broken or mentally unstable and get free help, if not be subsidised by our government. I grew up in the 60s and 70s when we all were responsible for ourselves and our children if they were defective. society doesnt make them defective, whatever happened to asylums?, not politicaly correct anymore because everyone has the same rights?, bs, i carry and i support our freedom thru the second amendment, our country is going to hell in a handbasket because of liberals who want to just give to make it better, BS!!

[Dallas Duster]

Where are you getting your facts?

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/St...stice/TrendHom

As somebody from a country with very low levels of gun ownership, and extremely low levels of gun crime,(5 murders in 2011/12 and 11 attempted murders) I have read these pages with fascination. We have had tragedy in the not too distant past, at Dunblane primary school (about 25miles from my home) and afterwards the recriminations all centered on the treatment, or lack thereof of the gunmans mental health. Not once was there a call for armed guards or every citizen to have access to weapons. Infact, gun ownership became far more difficult, even air rifles being banned. If there is extremely restricted access to firearms, and appropriate medical care for the mentally ill, then surely these incidents can be almost eradicated?

[timebuilder]

As somebody from a country with very low levels of gun ownership, and extremely low levels of gun crime,(5 murders in 2011/12 and 11 attempted murders) I have read these pages with fascination. We have had tragedy in the not too distant past, at Dunblane primary school (about 25miles from my home) and afterwards the recriminations all centered on the treatment, or lack thereof of the gunmans mental health. Not once was there a call for armed guards or every citizen to have access to weapons. Infact, gun ownership became far more difficult, even air rifles being banned. If there is extremely restricted access to firearms, and appropriate medical care for the mentally ill, then surely these incidents can be almost eradicated?

As a man of Scottish descent, I don't have to remind you that it is countries like America that are the reason you are not speaking German right now. An unarmed Scottish population would have been easy prey for the storm troopers. So, you have the luxury of others coming to your aid, when needed. We, on the other hand, expend our blood and treasure of behalf of keeping others free, along with ourselves.

The founders of the US enshrined our right to bear arms so that we, the populace, could protect ourselves from any future tyrants. We are not having these shootings because of guns, but because of the individuals who can circumvent the current laws and acquire those guns for a a demented purpose. We used to make certain these unbalanced folks received treatment, and were sequestered from the more balanced population until that treatment was completed.

This is not a slam against Scotland, or my ancestral town of Rutherglen. It's merely a fact that if you did not have a United States that was willing to cross the ocean in the 1940's, you too would need to have a well armed populace, and would need to take the same measures we must take now to ensure our safety from the depressed and psychotic.

[doc havoc]

So,
Ban assault weapons
Ban high capacity magazines

Unfortunately, high capacity magazines and assaust weapons are not the problem. My XD40 holds 12 in the mag. My XD9 holds 15. Add a round to the chamber and that's 13 or 16, depending on the gun. These are not high capacity magazines. I can eject and replace a magazine in either gun in about 2 seconds and have a new round chambered in another 1-1.5 seconds. I have 4 magazines for each gun. My point is, that in 10-15 seconds I can rattle off 30 rounds, which isn't much slower than an AR-15 with a 30 round magazine if time is being taken between shots for accuracy. If I'm carrying both, I can shoot 29 rounds even faster because I shoot left and right handed. Not much difference in time and rounds fired between my handguns and an AR-15 with a 30 round mag.