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  1. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by energy_rater_La View Post
    I don't see the need for semi automatic guns or automatic guns of any type being available
    to the general public at all.

    therein lies the problem.

    all this right to bear arms crap has gotten totally out of hand.
    open your eyes to what is the 30th attack on schoolchildren since columbine.

    at some point some kind of gun law reform has to come about.

    how many innocent childern & innocent people have to die for
    people to realize this?

    Okay, then.

    Explain to me how none of the legally owned guns have been used in the mass shootings you described. I'll wait right here.

    Let's start with Columbine. Were the shooters the owners of the guns used at Columbine, or were the shooters already in violation of gun laws when they took someone else's guns to that school?

    You see kid, a law will not stop someone who ignores laws.

    Get it?

    Gun laws CANNOT stop these shootings.

    Instead, those two kids needed to be identified early on as having emotional problems, and gotten the treatment they needed, with or without their consent.

    That's what would have saved the kids at their school, AND the kids in Connecticut, yesterday.

    Guns are not crazy shooters. PEOPLE are.
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  2. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaard View Post
    We can debate gun laws forever. But that is not the issue. Save that for another thread.
    School children all over the world have been attacked with guns, knives, needles, bombs, gasoline, etc.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...elated_attacks

    I want to talk about what can be done to prevent future attacks at schools. Locked doors aren't enough.

    I've given a couple of ideas. What say you?
    See my posts above.

    When I was a kid, if you were a nut job, they took you to the nut house. We were safe. I played unsupervised in my neighborhood all day long. I was as safe as if I was in my living room.

    My schools doors were open all day. Any adult could walk right in.

    Know why?

    There were no nuts walking around in the general population, and there were no reports that served as examples for nut jobs to duplicate. I'm sure that Friday's shooter had seen reports on TV of other shootings, so in his diseased mind, this course of action seemed "acceptable" to him.

    Lock up and treat the crazy people. Kids will be safe.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

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  3. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    I hear you and I agree!

    Would you expand TSA to lock-down schools? Sounds safe... yet what message does this send to kids? FEAR! Do we really want our kids to grow up fearing every dark corner?
    I have to disagree with you here. Locked doors do not impose fear. Knowing that someone that was not supposed to be inside could not get in would make one feel safer.
    Having open doors that would allow anyone one in would make me nervous.

    I fully understand the instinct to protect one's family, I have it also. However do we protect our families by disarming ourselves... or do we protect our families by defending ourselves? Remember: When you need a cop in seconds, they are minutes away. Just reality. Unfortunayely the police don't protect people. They aren't involved till a crime is already committed. and by the time they arrive, many people are hurt or dead.

    I would propose guns, gun safety training, and gun competitions becoming an accepted part of life... thus giving folks a sense of being able to protect themselves. Again; the fact areas with strict gun laws have more crime and areas with loose gun laws have less crime.

    The other thing I would propose is making folks accountable for their actions. We need to do away with psychological BS in the courts. The crime is the issue; you do the crime, you do the time... NO exceptions. Note societies where crime is dealt with swiftly and effectively do not have as much crime as those that do not.
    You can only deal with criminals after they've committed a crime. There is no way to see or know what's inside someones head.
    I repair air conditioners to keep people cool when it's 110+ degrees outside.
    I repair heaters so people don't freeze to death.
    I shut down furnaces that are unsafe to operate.
    Make fun of my profession, but dang it, I save lives.

    We're awl pawthetic and kweepy and can't get giwrls. That's why we fight wobots.

  4. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    See my posts above.

    When I was a kid, if you were a nut job, they took you to the nut house. We were safe. I played unsupervised in my neighborhood all day long. I was as safe as if I was in my living room.

    My schools doors were open all day. Any adult could walk right in.

    Know why?

    There were no nuts walking around in the general population, and there were no reports that served as examples for nut jobs to duplicate. I'm sure that Friday's shooter had seen reports on TV of other shootings, so in his diseased mind, this course of action seemed "acceptable" to him.

    Lock up and treat the crazy people. Kids will be safe.
    Not all people are crazy. the mall shooter had no history of mental illness. Some people just go off the deep end. No explanation.

    After more than a week of testimony, the jury exonerated the school board and its employees. In its verdict the jury concluded that Kehoe "conducted himself sanely and so concealed his operations that there was no cause to suspect any of his actions; and we further find that the school board, and Frank Smith, janitor of the school building, were not negligent in and about their duties, and were not guilty of any negligence in not discovering Kehoe's plan."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster
    I repair air conditioners to keep people cool when it's 110+ degrees outside.
    I repair heaters so people don't freeze to death.
    I shut down furnaces that are unsafe to operate.
    Make fun of my profession, but dang it, I save lives.

    We're awl pawthetic and kweepy and can't get giwrls. That's why we fight wobots.

  5. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaard View Post
    You can only deal with criminals after they've committed a crime. There is no way to see or know what's inside someones head.

    I'm sorry, that is about 95% incorrect.

    Any good psychologist can interview a kid and tell you if he is well adjusted and socialized, and willing to follow sociality's conventions. This is what kept me safe as a kid: the willingness of adults in positions of power to run and fill the "sanitariums" as they were called then. In reality, the term today would be psychiatric hospitals, but they functioned the same way. All of the mentally defective folks were sent there for treatment, ongoing care, or both.

    We, the folks walking around, had no fear of being confronted by folks who heard voices in their heads, telling them to kill people.

    All we need is the fortitude to return to a the structure of a safe society.

    Even if we took away all off the guns, the folks who hear voices would still find a way to bring evil upon us.

    That just the way it is in a fallen world.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

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  6. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaard View Post
    Not all people are crazy. the mall shooter had no history of mental illness. Some people just go off the deep end. No explanation.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster
    I, on the other hand, have history on my side.

    I believe he WOULD have been identified before the shooting, had we put the same filters in place that we had when I was young. I can remember no mass shootings on TV news when I was a kid. RARELY, a couple of criminals would kill a family in their home, or something of that nature.

    It was NOTHING like what we see today.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
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  7. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaard View Post
    You can only deal with criminals after they've committed a crime. There is no way to see or know what's inside someones head.
    When I was growing up... we all understood that locks only kept honest folks honest. What I was referring to was a full airport TSA type of thing at every school... which while it may (or may not) decrease this kind of insane violence... is kinda a lot of $$$ IMO.

    I will have to respectfully disagree with you... as a co owner that does sales almost every day... yes one 'can' read symptoms of others' mental and emotional stability.

    TB has it clear as a Spring day: When us older folks were kids... safety was not an issue. I ran and played over miles... never worrying. I would rid my bicycle miles and miles and miles away from home... and was safe as if I were in a walled courtyard. The danger is because punishment is not swift and concise.

    Whec has a post in another thread... about how Israel handled this issue in the 1970's... and there is a PROVEN track record it works. I am sure some folks will not like it... it requires citizens taking charge of their lives rather than depending on the govt... Note GA is not saying any specific person depends on the govt... rather suggesting we should not think it is a viable solution.

    http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread....nneticut/page3
    Post # 31
    GA-HVAC-Tech

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  8. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    I'm sorry, that is about 95% incorrect.

    Any good psychologist can interview a kid and tell you if he is well adjusted and socialized, and willing to follow sociality's conventions. This is what kept me safe as a kid: the willingness of adults in positions of power to run and fill the "sanitariums" as they were called then. In reality, the term today would be psychiatric hospitals, but they functioned the same way. All of the mentally defective folks were sent there for treatment, ongoing care, or both.

    We, the folks walking around, had no fear of being confronted by folks who heard voices in their heads, telling them to kill people.

    All we need is the fortitude to return to a the structure of a safe society.

    Even if we took away all off the guns, the folks who hear voices would still find a way to bring evil upon us.

    That just the way it is in a fallen world.
    I will second what TB says here...

    Back in, around, the late 1990's, I dated a lady named Carol (last name stays private). Carol was a degreed and licensed criminal psychologist. She did interviews to determine whether someone was criminally dangerous or not... this was a HUGE determination of whether someone went on bail or was denied bail. This lady was sharp as a tack (or a razor knife if you prefer)... no-one would put the wool over her eyes; and she NEVER left the house without her .45... ... IMO she knew the criminal mind as well as the system better than we do... perhaps she understood something we could learn????
    So yes, it is quite possible to determine if someone is a nut-case if one wants to.

    This raises the question of whether the system wants to separate criminals from honest hard working folks...

    A question I think we will need to address at some time (perhaps after our emotions heal from the tragedy we have suffered).
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Galatians 2:20-21; Colossians 1: 21-22 & 26-27; 3:1-4; Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service.

  9. #35
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    Great post.
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  10. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    I, on the other hand, have history on my side.

    I believe he WOULD have been identified before the shooting, had we put the same filters in place that we had when I was young. I can remember no mass shootings on TV news when I was a kid. RARELY, a couple of criminals would kill a family in their home, or something of that nature.

    It was NOTHING like what we see today.
    GA is 60, grew up in Texas. What I remember when I was young is OCCASIONAL (few) reports of a store-owner who shot and killed a potential criminal... yet almost no reports of mass shootings.
    There was one in the mid 1960's at UT Austin... someone got into the tower and started playing sniper. Guy was a certified nutcase... he had a history of both head issues and crime. All that had to be done to stop that crime was to enforce existing (even then) laws of folks with a rap sheet not having guns. I do not remember if the gun he used was legally acquired or illegally acquired... anyone remember?

    If one does a small amount of googling... one will find literally MILLIONS of reports yearly in the USA of private citizens successfully defending themselves with deadly force... yet the news media does not report this... wonder why?
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Galatians 2:20-21; Colossians 1: 21-22 & 26-27; 3:1-4; Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service.

  11. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    GA is 60, grew up in Texas. What I remember when I was young is OCCASIONAL (few) reports of a store-owner who shot and killed a potential criminal... yet almost no reports of mass shootings.
    There was one in the mid 1960's at UT Austin... someone got into the tower and started playing sniper. Guy was a certified nutcase... he had a history of both head issues and crime. All that had to be done to stop that crime was to enforce existing (even then) laws of folks with a rap sheet not having guns. I do not remember if the gun he used was legally acquired or illegally acquired... anyone remember?

    If one does a small amount of googling... one will find literally MILLIONS of reports yearly in the USA of private citizens successfully defending themselves with deadly force... yet the news media does not report this... wonder why?
    Because, it does not fit their narrative.

    The guy in the "Texas tower" was a guy who the Army failed to identify, if memory serves, and the ACLU had already sued in federal court to allow all the crazy people out of the sanitariums.
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  12. #38
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    I'm not following you guys. In order to keep the crazies out we need to give psych evaluations to the kids inside.
    Then what? We start removing children from the schools and begin therapy in order to be sure they don't grow up to be criminals. So your solutions are to have the govt give us all psych tests to weed out the bad apples in order to make society safer.

    Welcome 1984!
    I repair air conditioners to keep people cool when it's 110+ degrees outside.
    I repair heaters so people don't freeze to death.
    I shut down furnaces that are unsafe to operate.
    Make fun of my profession, but dang it, I save lives.

    We're awl pawthetic and kweepy and can't get giwrls. That's why we fight wobots.

  13. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaard View Post
    I'm not following you guys. In order to keep the crazies out we need to give psych evaluations to the kids inside.
    Then what? We start removing children from the schools and begin therapy in order to be sure they don't grow up to be criminals. So your solutions are to have the govt give us all psych tests to weed out the bad apples in order to make society safer.

    Welcome 1984!
    Nope. We already did it routinely until the 1960's.

    You are probably too young to remember.
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