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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    LEHIGH VALLEY, PA
    Posts
    161

    ice machine , compressors, source

    hi guys , what is your view on replacing ice machine compressors , my service manager says we must order from the ice machine manufacturer, scotsman hoshizaki , manitowac etc , we do a lot of ice machines here, i cant see the difference in ordering it from the parts house , as long as it is the same model no , manufacturer, volts , hz, connections refigerant etc , i reckon the only difference is the higger price and the delay in delivery and cost of freight ??, does he have a point he reckons they are suplied as different models to to the ice machine manufacturers , but i am thinking same part number ??.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    116
    Different, a normal walk-in cooler/freezer compressor won't survive too many harvest cycles on an ice machine, most of the ice machine compressors don't even cross reference on Copeland's site, you pretty much have to buy them through the manufacturer (I'm assuming that since its a scotsman in probably has a copeland in it). They do cost much more through the manufacturer, but I'm sure that the compressor manufacturers charge a premium for a custom compressor. If I remember right, they needed beefier bearings, conrods, and valves, because it will probably get a drink of liquid during harvest, especially most Scotsmans. Do you by chance have the model number of the machine you're looking at, because a lot of Scotsman flakers use the same compressor as their cuber brethren, and with the amount of garbage Scotsman flakes with bad evaporators, you might be able to source a used compressor cheap

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Tahlequah OK
    Posts
    131
    I have changed out ice machine compressors bought from my supply house with no problems. As long as it is the same model number it should be the same compressor used by the manufacture. How can the compressor see liquid during harvest when the evaporator is seeing hot gas? Am I missing something?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    saint cloud fl
    Posts
    5
    if there is a refrigeration problem outside of harvest cycle it will see liquid

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    saint cloud fl
    Posts
    5
    nice....
    Quote Originally Posted by welling service View Post
    I have changed out ice machine compressors bought from my supply house with no problems. As long as it is the same model number it should be the same compressor used by the manufacture. How can the compressor see liquid during harvest when the evaporator is seeing hot gas? Am I missing something?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Tahlequah OK
    Posts
    131
    If you loose water flow during freeze cycle than it can see liquid but I do not see it happening during a harvest cycle.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Garland, TX
    Posts
    39
    Why would you ever use a used compressor? I work on 7 or cubers a week and woukd never jeporadize my customer by installing used parts, not worth the hassel of unloading my van, recovering refrigerant, repairing it just have it happen again. Not to mention your customer having to buy ice. We always use oem, why? There are times that the mfg's make changes and your supplier should be carrying that newest model. That might even be a copeland, tecumseh, bristol or danfoss changing to any of the other brands listed. Thise changes may be due to high failure rates of certain models or brands.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    642
    See this post about using off the shelf compressors for ice machines vs. OEM compressors:

    http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread....ssor+manitowoc


    Regarding compressors seeing liquid during harvest, this is exactly when the situation would occur. Hot gas goes into evaporator, bypassing the TXV, gives off heat and condenses into a liquid. If you watch the suction accumulator on a Manitowoc CVD unit during harvest, you will see it fills up with liquid, then on the start of next freeze cycle as it begins to boil off, you can practically see the liquid level in the accumulator as it freezes up. Although granted, the CVD is cool vapor defrost, not hot gas

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Auburn, New York
    Posts
    241
    Go with OEM. I try to go worth OEM on everything when possible. Been in the field over 25 years. Spent too much time in my early days trying to make something fit to save the customer money. Any savings will get eaten up by the extra labor it takes to screw around.
    Also, being in the business all that time I think we have changed one or two ice machine compressors and we work on them daily. My company does the warranty around this area for Manitowoc, Hoshizaki, Scotsman, Cornelius ......usually if a compressor goes and the ice machine is eight or ten years old, sell them a new one.
    once you think you know everything, you'll never learn another thing!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Guayaquil EC
    Posts
    10,260
    Quote Originally Posted by trippintl0 View Post
    See this post about using off the shelf compressors for ice machines vs. OEM compressors:

    http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread....ssor+manitowoc


    Regarding compressors seeing liquid during harvest, this is exactly when the situation would occur. Hot gas goes into evaporator, bypassing the TXV, gives off heat and condenses into a liquid. If you watch the suction accumulator on a Manitowoc CVD unit during harvest, you will see it fills up with liquid, then on the start of next freeze cycle as it begins to boil off, you can practically see the liquid level in the accumulator as it freezes up. Although granted, the CVD is cool vapor defrost, not hot gas
    I agree with your observation of liquid during harvest. I've seen that on the older remotes (G-Series I think) which had accumulators.

    I'd also like to add to what was brought out in that link to the past thread concerning OEM replacement compressors. Using the Copeland CS20K6E I mentioned back then, If you were to compare the OEM vs the wholesaler models available, you would find the model numbers may be the same but their bill of material codes are different. A typical wholesaler B/M code might be -945 and the Manitowoc's OEM code is -275. While both compressors are physically identical or quite similar, the internals are different due to the beefier valves and bearings as I noted.

    It's also interesting to compare the difference of the compressor performance data between the freeze cycle and harvest. I looked at a CS20K6E-PFV and found the conditions during harvest are at or slightly beyond the operating envelop, the amps increase about 50% while the capacity and mass flow increase nearly 300%. That indicates to me there is a very high load and lots of gas flowing during harvest...ie, the compressor stressed to its limits.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Garland, TX
    Posts
    39
    Quote Originally Posted by ddalberto View Post
    Go with OEM. I try to go worth OEM on everything when possible. Been in the field over 25 years. Spent too much time in my early days trying to make something fit to save the customer money. Any savings will get eaten up by the extra labor it takes to screw around.
    Also, being in the business all that time I think we have changed one or two ice machine compressors and we work on them daily. My company does the warranty around this area for Manitowoc, Hoshizaki, Scotsman, Cornelius ......usually if a compressor goes and the ice machine is eight or ten years old, sell them a new one.
    I agree, if you have a compressor or evaporator on a unit that is out of warranty. Highly recommend replacement, if they do repair I quote everything, txv's, head master,
    hot gas valves. You don't know why you failed a compressor and it helps push for new unit. Again it is insurance that if they do approve a repair it will last without having problems again.

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