Arc flash training

[trykonxlgold75]

Sat through a shorten arc flash training class today, have any of you recieved this training. I never realized I was breaking so many OSHA laws. Can not even work on any equipment without suiting up. Certified clothes, face shied, gloves. Don't get me wrong I like to be safe but I also like to be able to move around and not sweat to death. If the equipment you are working on hasn't had a study done yet you have to be an enginer to know what is legal to wear, because the certified clothes have different ratings and if you just wear the max you will look like you are in a space suit.

[passintyme]

Cat. 0 requirements are cotton shirt and pants, safety glasses, rubber gloves with leather gloves over them and rated boots. Not a bad gig considering what is at stake. Sounds like you need the full class to really grasp the different levels of protection. Technically speaking all equipment we work on should be tagged with an arc sticker defining what level of protection is required to approach/work on that piece of equipment. Most all that we work on will be level 0-2. Even at a 2 a low cal jump suite or jacket with cotton pants , the gloves , glasses and a face shield is all that is needed. Normal trouble shooting on 460v and less is a level 0. And I know more than a couple times I have gotten nailed where if had the gloves on it would not have happened. Good training though... Recommend looking some more into it for sure...

[hands]

My company requires us to wear a jumpsuit, rubber gloves, leather gloves, hard hat with face shield and chin guard. We have to use this on anything over 24 volts. You will have a heat stroke in the summer and freeze to death in the winter. If I was wearing this today while I was on the roof for about 6 hours, I would have been frozen. You can't wear a coat over the jumpsuit and a coat won't fit under it. I was told that we only have to wear this PPE until we shut off the power, then we can change clothes. They don't understand that most of our work is with the power on.

[ryan1088]

I don't know if you meant it this way or not but the rules are there for your safety. I'm sure there's been extensive research on what's required in a given situation. Remember, this is all for YOUR protection. You can choose not to use it. I suggest that you google/YouTube arc flash, watch some videos, then report back why you don't think it's a good idea or an inconvenience. Ya it sucks cause the stuff is hot but I can deal with that instead of having shrapnel lodged in my face and 3rd degree burns.

See this table and suit up for what you're working on.
http://www.cementexusa.com/pdf/WallChart_small.pdf

[patrick]

All of the videos on you tube are of LARGE switch gear. In my opinion there is not enough arc potiential on the standard residential or light commercial units.

Like Hands said, in the winter in seattle we would be soaking wet and frozen. What if you were trouble shooting in alaska during the middle of winter, "sorry but you have to wear a jumpsuit and cotton shirt even though its neg 20." BS.

Do you wear gloves every time you hook your guages up to prevent refrigernt burns? Or are you smart enough to just let it go if it does dump the charge?

The government is going to cause the cost of repairs to skyrocket. OSHA only cares about their own jobs, they will keep coming up with more laws just to keep themselves employed. Stop drinking their cool aid. What if they forced you to stop smoking? Its bad for you and for your safty... I ride motorcycles and have gone 160 mph (on a race track), but for my safty the government says I cant anymore. You cant bubble wrap the whole world.

I have no problem if you want to wear all of this to make yourself safer

[ryan1088]

All of the videos on you tube are of LARGE switch gear. In my opinion there is not enough arc potiential on the standard residential or light commercial units.

Like Hands said, in the winter in seattle we would be soaking wet and frozen. What if you were trouble shooting in alaska during the middle of winter, "sorry but you have to wear a jumpsuit and cotton shirt even though its neg 20." BS.

Do you wear gloves every time you hook your guages up to prevent refrigernt burns? Or are you smart enough to just let it go if it does dump the charge?

The government is going to cause the cost of repairs to skyrocket. OSHA only cares about their own jobs, they will keep coming up with more laws just to keep themselves employed. Stop drinking their cool aid. What if they forced you to stop smoking? Its bad for you and for your safty... I ride motorcycles and have gone 160 mph (on a race track), but for my safty the government says I cant anymore. You cant bubble wrap the whole world.

I have no problem if you want to wear all of this to make yourself safer

Won't disagree that you won't see something like that in a residential setting but all of us don't work in the residential setting. There are a lot of 1000 amp services that we have to some of our bigger chillers.
As far as OSHA goes, they're gonna do what they do. Answering for the fines your company incurs because you didn't follow the company policy.......very tough.

[trykonxlgold75]

I know it is there for my safety but I think it is a little extreme it is not my choice it is the law, actualy i dont have to follow osha rules pa state employee we follow a differ t set of rules. Also check out some arc flash ratings a lot of the times it is higher on " small" equipment. our 480 mains is higher than our 12kv mains.

[toocoolforschool]

I know we all have war stories but this is a good one.
The Entergy guy was working on a transformer that services the school it is 13000 volts, anyways I heard a loud explosion and ran out to the street and the dude was standing there looking like his life flashed in front of him, anyways he stuck a screwdriver into the terminal for some reason and it arched. He had rubber gloves up past his elbows but had short sleeved shirt between the gloves and shirt was 2nd to 3rd degree burns, luckily he did have a face guard but they still hauled him to the hospital. His kids were lucky to get him home that night.

[Cold shot]

Personally, I use my rubber gloves & leather protector gloves when I feel it is necessary. Mostly when I am working inside an electrical panel, motor starter control cabinet etc. Also voltage testing large electrical circuits 460v.

[coolright]

I had to set up a study and training for 70E. Had a company come in, like was said earlier its interesting in what is a class 0 and what is a class 2.

Our training is set up for next week. Our HVAC equipment ended up being cat 0 and cat 1.
1) Working in control panels if power is live, you will need to wear cat 1 clothing.
2) If need to be in MCC or sub panels that are cat 2 only HVAC leads or electricians
3) anything above MCC or sub panels will only be electrical craft. Cat 4 clothing required.

Any one that will work with electrical in company will be required to take 8 hour training. Electrical subs will be required to take the 8 hour program also. HVAC subs will be required to take a 2 hour awareness program. After which all mechinal subs will need to prove that each of their employees that will be working on site are trained in Ark Flash (70E) stating next week.

Company is taking a hard line you will be trained or not allowed to work on site.

This is the way every company will need to go. We will be living with this just like when other safety equipment started to be used no one liked it, but we got used to it and now it's norm.

[jabeu]

We just implimented the program. NFPA70E was set up to protect the employer. It is not an OSHA requirement for the employee yet. However, OSHA recognizes it as en eletrical standard. Employers are required to train and provide the necessary PPE for their employees. If the employees choose not to wear it and ignore the proper procedures then the employer cannot be held liable. If your employer requires you to wear it, then you ahve to wear it. It is defenitley overkill and a huge expnese, not to mention listening to the complaining from employees.

[coolright]

In our area the OSHA director is big on 70E. If/when OSHA comes on site if you don't have a plan in effect. You will get a fine. Also every person working on electrical at the time of walk throught that is not wearing PPE, then the company will get hit with that fine per person on top of the base fine.

Have had a few friends in different hospitals here that this has happen to. On top of the fine they had 90 days to put a plan in effect, have a study done, train staff and get the PPE that is required. Then have another inspection to make sure they are up to speed. A truly messy and expensive issue.

[hvac69]

jabeu;14886141]We just implimented the program. NFPA70E was set up to protect the employer.

This has been my feeling on this subject, we went through two classes which seemed long enough to satisfy some insurer that we have a policy, but much shorter in length that others I know have gone through

It is not an OSHA requirement for the employee yet. However, OSHA recognizes it as en eletrical standard. Employers are required to train and provide the necessary PPE for their employees.

We went through the training, it is in our handbook that I refused to sign due to not being issued the PPE. But still think if something goes wrong I will be screwed when it comes to liability

If the employees choose not to wear it and ignore the proper procedures then the employer cannot be held liable.
If your employer requires you to wear it, then you ahve to wear it. It is defenitley overkill and a huge expnese, not to mention listening to the complaining from employees.

If they dont supply it where do we as employees stand? As far as overkill I dont believe that under certain circumstances, especially when working in a MCC with a 13.2k transformer 2 feet to your right. There is a great possibility of arch flash there. I experienced one arch flash that left me with temporary ringing ears and spot blindness and that was only from a 480 300 amp circuit so I see the importance of the PPE. All MCC work I walk away from and tell them they need to an electrician for now, I am not playing games.

[jabeu]

If the employee feels strongly about it then they need to request the employer provides training and PPE. They can go to OSHA if they choose. Bottom line is if safety is a concern of yours but not your employer then you need to find another employer. As far as going too far I was referring more so to the residential area. The company I work for has been in business for almost a hundred years and never had an incident. We work on commercial equipment, however it is rare we work on anything over 600 volts. However it is odd all of the sudden when you walk into an office building suited to the gills to work on a 277 volt watersource unit.

[chamberlain]

R.S.E.S HAD A NICE TRAINING 'HIGH VOLTAGE WERE THYE ACTUALY USED LIVE VOLAGE AND CARBON ARCH FRIED HOT DOGS AND MADE FIREWORKS DISCUSED HOT STICKS AND FLAME SUITES LOCK OUT TAG OUTS 4160 DOWN TO 120 . BETTER SEVICE THROUGH KNOWLEDGE ...

[flange]

NFPA 70E is a complicated statute, and for better understanding one should read it in its entirety. The premise is...electricity is dangerous, and we want you to go home to your family tonite. If you get that, you can understand why they want you to wear it. It is for live voltage greater than fifty volts in most cases if memory serves correctly,which means we can only service the low voltage side without protection.

If you want ot read up on it, you can join NFPA and read documents online.

[timebuilder]

R.S.E.S HAD A NICE TRAINING 'HIGH VOLTAGE WERE THYE ACTUALY USED LIVE VOLAGE AND CARBON ARCH FRIED HOT DOGS AND MADE FIREWORKS DISCUSED HOT STICKS AND FLAME SUITES LOCK OUT TAG OUTS 4160 DOWN TO 120 . BETTER SEVICE THROUGH KNOWLEDGE ...

WHY ARE YOU USING ALL CAPS....?

[HvAckid82]

All of us got certified today since we are working at a bottling plant, strange thing is that we never heard of it until going through this plant. After digging into it last week we realized its the law of the land. For us we will only need to worry about having 00 gloves and level 2 PPE. There was some grumbling from the guys but we all told stories and at the end everyone realized it does make sense to do it. Many times the hair on my neck stood up because I knew I shouldn't have my face so close when a contractor snaps, another guy had a VFD blow up in front of him. After having kids all I think about is not being here for them and the safety stuff makes sense.

By the way OSHA goes after the employer regardless of how negligent the employee is. Now if the employer wants to get the lawyers to go after the employee that's different but OSHA specifically said they do not go after the guys

[jayguy]

i believe that OSHA 'in principle' is doing a good job, however, 'in practice' they believe that they can pass laws that will keep a 2 year-old safe in a war zone.

of course OSHA is going to go after the company...if you are hurt and in a hospital, you probably aren't getting paid and the company has deeper pockets. the concept is that if they scare the company into compliance everybody will be safe...b.s.

i know that i am safer than i have ever been...and not because of OSHA. i wear cut-resistant gloves all the time. safety glasses too. and that is just for regular ol' stuff. i am supposed to wear the arc flash on the >50 VAC, but it really doesn't come out unless it is a nominal 200 VAC or higher...then i get suited up. i have witnessed some scary stuff and it was at much lower voltages than most of you would think. please keep in mind that the equipment that you are working on doesn't know that it isn't supposed to fail. it will fail when it wants and how it wants...you may just be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

keep in mind, that if you don't want to wear the safety gear (arc flash or not), many companies are rating their contractors based on their safety ratings. in some places, if you are the safe contractor, you get the work regardless of how much you charge per hour. being safe can be profitable.

[GT Jets]

i believe that OSHA 'in principle' is doing a good job, however, 'in practice' they believe that they can pass laws that will keep a 2 year-old safe in a war zone.

of course OSHA is going to go after the company...if you are hurt and in a hospital, you probably aren't getting paid and the company has deeper pockets. the concept is that if they scare the company into compliance everybody will be safe...b.s.

i know that i am safer than i have ever been...and not because of OSHA. i wear cut-resistant gloves all the time. safety glasses too. and that is just for regular ol' stuff. i am supposed to wear the arc flash on the >50 VAC, but it really doesn't come out unless it is a nominal 200 VAC or higher...then i get suited up. i have witnessed some scary stuff and it was at much lower voltages than most of you would think. please keep in mind that the equipment that you are working on doesn't know that it isn't supposed to fail. it will fail when it wants and how it wants...you may just be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

keep in mind, that if you don't want to wear the safety gear (arc flash or not), many companies are rating their contractors based on their safety ratings. in some places, if you are the safe contractor, you get the work regardless of how much you charge per hour. being safe can be profitable.

And at the same time, you have to be careful what you say... You should not be wearing cut resistant glove "all of the time"... a Power tool constitutes almost all types of glove an absolute no no. Trust me with this, literally took two fingers off my left hand because of a poor judgement in protective clothing...

X2 on the contractor rating system. Without a good rating, you could be eliminating from the bidding pool just based on a few lazy people that get hurt because their safety glass are uncomfortable...

I keep a spare pair of tethered ear plugs in my pocket just to flick them at the face of some dumbass that thinks working next to a 125db machine without hearing protection makes him tough or cool.

Still... You should see the looks on peoples faces when you walk out of a mechanical room when you walk out of there wearing a 15 cal/cm arc suit... You would think you had a 15lb booger on your jacket...

GT