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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Central PA
    Posts
    52

    Arc flash training

    Sat through a shorten arc flash training class today, have any of you recieved this training. I never realized I was breaking so many OSHA laws. Can not even work on any equipment without suiting up. Certified clothes, face shied, gloves. Don't get me wrong I like to be safe but I also like to be able to move around and not sweat to death. If the equipment you are working on hasn't had a study done yet you have to be an enginer to know what is legal to wear, because the certified clothes have different ratings and if you just wear the max you will look like you are in a space suit.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    toledo, ohio
    Posts
    62

    not to bad

    Cat. 0 requirements are cotton shirt and pants, safety glasses, rubber gloves with leather gloves over them and rated boots. Not a bad gig considering what is at stake. Sounds like you need the full class to really grasp the different levels of protection. Technically speaking all equipment we work on should be tagged with an arc sticker defining what level of protection is required to approach/work on that piece of equipment. Most all that we work on will be level 0-2. Even at a 2 a low cal jump suite or jacket with cotton pants , the gloves , glasses and a face shield is all that is needed. Normal trouble shooting on 460v and less is a level 0. And I know more than a couple times I have gotten nailed where if had the gloves on it would not have happened. Good training though... Recommend looking some more into it for sure...

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    497
    My company requires us to wear a jumpsuit, rubber gloves, leather gloves, hard hat with face shield and chin guard. We have to use this on anything over 24 volts. You will have a heat stroke in the summer and freeze to death in the winter. If I was wearing this today while I was on the roof for about 6 hours, I would have been frozen. You can't wear a coat over the jumpsuit and a coat won't fit under it. I was told that we only have to wear this PPE until we shut off the power, then we can change clothes. They don't understand that most of our work is with the power on.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Mid-Mo
    Posts
    3,596
    I don't know if you meant it this way or not but the rules are there for your safety. I'm sure there's been extensive research on what's required in a given situation. Remember, this is all for YOUR protection. You can choose not to use it. I suggest that you google/YouTube arc flash, watch some videos, then report back why you don't think it's a good idea or an inconvenience. Ya it sucks cause the stuff is hot but I can deal with that instead of having shrapnel lodged in my face and 3rd degree burns.

    See this table and suit up for what you're working on.
    http://www.cementexusa.com/pdf/WallChart_small.pdf

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    384
    All of the videos on you tube are of LARGE switch gear. In my opinion there is not enough arc potiential on the standard residential or light commercial units.

    Like Hands said, in the winter in seattle we would be soaking wet and frozen. What if you were trouble shooting in alaska during the middle of winter, "sorry but you have to wear a jumpsuit and cotton shirt even though its neg 20." BS.

    Do you wear gloves every time you hook your guages up to prevent refrigernt burns? Or are you smart enough to just let it go if it does dump the charge?

    The government is going to cause the cost of repairs to skyrocket. OSHA only cares about their own jobs, they will keep coming up with more laws just to keep themselves employed. Stop drinking their cool aid. What if they forced you to stop smoking? Its bad for you and for your safty... I ride motorcycles and have gone 160 mph (on a race track), but for my safty the government says I cant anymore. You cant bubble wrap the whole world.

    I have no problem if you want to wear all of this to make yourself safer

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pa
    Posts
    758
    All of us got certified today since we are working at a bottling plant, strange thing is that we never heard of it until going through this plant. After digging into it last week we realized its the law of the land. For us we will only need to worry about having 00 gloves and level 2 PPE. There was some grumbling from the guys but we all told stories and at the end everyone realized it does make sense to do it. Many times the hair on my neck stood up because I knew I shouldn't have my face so close when a contractor snaps, another guy had a VFD blow up in front of him. After having kids all I think about is not being here for them and the safety stuff makes sense.

    By the way OSHA goes after the employer regardless of how negligent the employee is. Now if the employer wants to get the lawyers to go after the employee that's different but OSHA specifically said they do not go after the guys

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Mixing oil and fire with a big spoon.
    Posts
    4,526
    i believe that OSHA 'in principle' is doing a good job, however, 'in practice' they believe that they can pass laws that will keep a 2 year-old safe in a war zone.

    of course OSHA is going to go after the company...if you are hurt and in a hospital, you probably aren't getting paid and the company has deeper pockets. the concept is that if they scare the company into compliance everybody will be safe...b.s.

    i know that i am safer than i have ever been...and not because of OSHA. i wear cut-resistant gloves all the time. safety glasses too. and that is just for regular ol' stuff. i am supposed to wear the arc flash on the >50 VAC, but it really doesn't come out unless it is a nominal 200 VAC or higher...then i get suited up. i have witnessed some scary stuff and it was at much lower voltages than most of you would think. please keep in mind that the equipment that you are working on doesn't know that it isn't supposed to fail. it will fail when it wants and how it wants...you may just be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    keep in mind, that if you don't want to wear the safety gear (arc flash or not), many companies are rating their contractors based on their safety ratings. in some places, if you are the safe contractor, you get the work regardless of how much you charge per hour. being safe can be profitable.
    "If you pull one more stunt like you just pulled with Tommy, you won't have to get on a plane because I will personally kick your ass from here to Korea!" - Best of the Best

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Morgan Hill Ca.
    Posts
    1,219
    Quote Originally Posted by jayguy View Post
    i believe that OSHA 'in principle' is doing a good job, however, 'in practice' they believe that they can pass laws that will keep a 2 year-old safe in a war zone.

    of course OSHA is going to go after the company...if you are hurt and in a hospital, you probably aren't getting paid and the company has deeper pockets. the concept is that if they scare the company into compliance everybody will be safe...b.s.

    i know that i am safer than i have ever been...and not because of OSHA. i wear cut-resistant gloves all the time. safety glasses too. and that is just for regular ol' stuff. i am supposed to wear the arc flash on the >50 VAC, but it really doesn't come out unless it is a nominal 200 VAC or higher...then i get suited up. i have witnessed some scary stuff and it was at much lower voltages than most of you would think. please keep in mind that the equipment that you are working on doesn't know that it isn't supposed to fail. it will fail when it wants and how it wants...you may just be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    keep in mind, that if you don't want to wear the safety gear (arc flash or not), many companies are rating their contractors based on their safety ratings. in some places, if you are the safe contractor, you get the work regardless of how much you charge per hour. being safe can be profitable.
    And at the same time, you have to be careful what you say... You should not be wearing cut resistant glove "all of the time"... a Power tool constitutes almost all types of glove an absolute no no. Trust me with this, literally took two fingers off my left hand because of a poor judgement in protective clothing...

    X2 on the contractor rating system. Without a good rating, you could be eliminating from the bidding pool just based on a few lazy people that get hurt because their safety glass are uncomfortable...

    I keep a spare pair of tethered ear plugs in my pocket just to flick them at the face of some dumbass that thinks working next to a 125db machine without hearing protection makes him tough or cool.

    Still... You should see the looks on peoples faces when you walk out of a mechanical room when you walk out of there wearing a 15 cal/cm arc suit... You would think you had a 15lb booger on your jacket...

    GT
    If a day goes by and you have learned nothing, I hope you got a lot of sleep.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Mid-Mo
    Posts
    3,596
    Quote Originally Posted by patrick View Post
    All of the videos on you tube are of LARGE switch gear. In my opinion there is not enough arc potiential on the standard residential or light commercial units.

    Like Hands said, in the winter in seattle we would be soaking wet and frozen. What if you were trouble shooting in alaska during the middle of winter, "sorry but you have to wear a jumpsuit and cotton shirt even though its neg 20." BS.

    Do you wear gloves every time you hook your guages up to prevent refrigernt burns? Or are you smart enough to just let it go if it does dump the charge?

    The government is going to cause the cost of repairs to skyrocket. OSHA only cares about their own jobs, they will keep coming up with more laws just to keep themselves employed. Stop drinking their cool aid. What if they forced you to stop smoking? Its bad for you and for your safty... I ride motorcycles and have gone 160 mph (on a race track), but for my safty the government says I cant anymore. You cant bubble wrap the whole world.

    I have no problem if you want to wear all of this to make yourself safer
    Won't disagree that you won't see something like that in a residential setting but all of us don't work in the residential setting. There are a lot of 1000 amp services that we have to some of our bigger chillers.
    As far as OSHA goes, they're gonna do what they do. Answering for the fines your company incurs because you didn't follow the company policy.......very tough.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Central PA
    Posts
    52
    I know it is there for my safety but I think it is a little extreme it is not my choice it is the law, actualy i dont have to follow osha rules pa state employee we follow a differ t set of rules. Also check out some arc flash ratings a lot of the times it is higher on " small" equipment. our 480 mains is higher than our 12kv mains.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,753
    I know we all have war stories but this is a good one.
    The Entergy guy was working on a transformer that services the school it is 13000 volts, anyways I heard a loud explosion and ran out to the street and the dude was standing there looking like his life flashed in front of him, anyways he stuck a screwdriver into the terminal for some reason and it arched. He had rubber gloves up past his elbows but had short sleeved shirt between the gloves and shirt was 2nd to 3rd degree burns, luckily he did have a face guard but they still hauled him to the hospital. His kids were lucky to get him home that night.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    21
    Personally, I use my rubber gloves & leather protector gloves when I feel it is necessary. Mostly when I am working inside an electrical panel, motor starter control cabinet etc. Also voltage testing large electrical circuits 460v.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    128
    I had to set up a study and training for 70E. Had a company come in, like was said earlier its interesting in what is a class 0 and what is a class 2.

    Our training is set up for next week. Our HVAC equipment ended up being cat 0 and cat 1.
    1) Working in control panels if power is live, you will need to wear cat 1 clothing.
    2) If need to be in MCC or sub panels that are cat 2 only HVAC leads or electricians
    3) anything above MCC or sub panels will only be electrical craft. Cat 4 clothing required.

    Any one that will work with electrical in company will be required to take 8 hour training. Electrical subs will be required to take the 8 hour program also. HVAC subs will be required to take a 2 hour awareness program. After which all mechinal subs will need to prove that each of their employees that will be working on site are trained in Ark Flash (70E) stating next week.

    Company is taking a hard line you will be trained or not allowed to work on site.

    This is the way every company will need to go. We will be living with this just like when other safety equipment started to be used no one liked it, but we got used to it and now it's norm.

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