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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    SE Wisconsin
    Posts
    313

    Gun control in schools, so to speak

    So I've been thinking about the nutjobs in the news recently. One in a mall and the one in the school. A CCW holder kept the carnage in the mall to a minimum.

    Here's a proposal that might generate a discussion:

    Take any and all schools and have 5% of your daily staff authorized, trained and licensed to carry a concealed weapon during the school day.

    Financial advantages: You are not hiring any more security staff to stand there and frisk kids or better yet, just stand there. You are using people already on the payroll. Just give the volunteers a kicker of $5K annually (adjusted for location) for taking on the added responsibility. Uniformed guards are the first targets of opportunity and just financial overhead, so you're saving a considerable amount in that regard.

    Tactical advantages: You school staff will work in tandem with local law enforcement to identify choke-points in the builiding(s) that will give the staff the best situations for taking out an armed intruder. Your staff will be intimately familiar with the building as they are in there daily. Once the school is in lockdown nobody will try to enter a classroom until the all-clear is announced. If the intruder forces his/her way into the room oof an armed staff member the staff has an ideal opportunity to stop the carnage there and then.

    The school district will own the weapons and provide the training. The staff will have to go through the background checks and an additional psychological check to ensure 1) they can respond when the time comes & 2) they should not get trigger happy just because they have a bad day. Should that staff member leave the school district, the weapon is returned to the school.

    So, your thoughts? Opinions? Advantages? Flaws?

    I've given this some thought and believe this has the possibility of being a workable plan.

    Ken

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Kaufman county, Texas
    Posts
    10,011
    Quote Originally Posted by chesehd View Post
    So I've been thinking about the nutjobs in the news recently. One in a mall and the one in the school. A CCW holder kept the carnage in the mall to a minimum.

    Here's a proposal that might generate a discussion:

    Take any and all schools and have 5% of your daily staff authorized, trained and licensed to carry a concealed weapon during the school day.

    Financial advantages: You are not hiring any more security staff to stand there and frisk kids or better yet, just stand there. You are using people already on the payroll. Just give the volunteers a kicker of $5K annually (adjusted for location) for taking on the added responsibility. Uniformed guards are the first targets of opportunity and just financial overhead, so you're saving a considerable amount in that regard.

    Tactical advantages: You school staff will work in tandem with local law enforcement to identify choke-points in the builiding(s) that will give the staff the best situations for taking out an armed intruder. Your staff will be intimately familiar with the building as they are in there daily. Once the school is in lockdown nobody will try to enter a classroom until the all-clear is announced. If the intruder forces his/her way into the room oof an armed staff member the staff has an ideal opportunity to stop the carnage there and then.

    The school district will own the weapons and provide the training. The staff will have to go through the background checks and an additional psychological check to ensure 1) they can respond when the time comes & 2) they should not get trigger happy just because they have a bad day. Should that staff member leave the school district, the weapon is returned to the school.

    So, your thoughts? Opinions? Advantages? Flaws?

    I've given this some thought and believe this has the possibility of being a workable plan.

    Ken
    Actually sounds fabulously practical to me.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

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  3. #3
    http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/20...in-connecticut

    Just another day in Debtrot,er Detroit.

    Its so much easier to regulate,then to deal with poverty and mental illness. Signed the gubba.
    Brought to you by Democratic Socialism,all 40 years of it.
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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Boise, ID
    Posts
    4,259
    Being sort of wise guy here, but if schools were physically divided into two sections, one which the faculty carried and the other half that did not....I wonder which side would end up getting "hit". Be interesting to see just how many of the anti gun zealots actually would chose to live by words.

    That nut job that cut loose in the movie theater recently drove out of his way to THAT theater because they openly advertised it was a "gun free" zone.
    If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what will never be. (Thomas Jefferson 1816)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    17,887
    IMO, the principal and assistant principal should both carry fire arms....not teachers!

    Class rooms and hallways should have cameras.

    Class rooms should have security doors that can only open from the inside, unless a security card is used...like a hotel room.

    Every class should have a panic button that would have a direct link to emergency services.

    This would include all day care facilities too...including churches/church schools.

    These institutions would make sure to let all know that you are under surveillance while on school property via signs at the entrance and on all doors.

    Best behave yourself!
    " Kill a Commie for Mommy! "

    - Colonel David Hackworth (1930-2005), Korean War Vet

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Losantiville
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    1,739
    Quote Originally Posted by the mojo View Post
    http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/20...in-connecticut

    Just another day in Debtrot,er Detroit.

    Its so much easier to regulate,then to deal with poverty and mental illness. Signed the gubba.
    Brought to you by Democratic Socialism,all 40 years of it.
    Sounds like he was concerned for his own safety. According to what has been said about the right to protect oneself recently how can someone find fault with what he did. If we take the self protection thing to its logical conclusion everyone will be outfitted with a firearm and bulletproof vest at birth - then we will ALL be safe.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bulletproof-...-/200808598306

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    412
    Quote Originally Posted by coolwhip View Post
    IMO, the principal and assistant principal should both carry fire arms....not teachers!

    Class rooms and hallways should have cameras.

    Class rooms should have security doors that can only open from the inside, unless a security card is used...like a hotel room.

    Every class should have a panic button that would have a direct link to emergency services.

    This would include all day care facilities too...including churches/church schools.

    These institutions would make sure to let all know that you are under surveillance while on school property via signs at the entrance and on all doors.

    Best behave yourself!
    Hey i can finally agree with you , i guess the world is ending tommorow .

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    21,014
    From another forum; in Israel retired folks guard the schools... system seems to work as the enemies of Israel tried violence in schools back in the 1960-70's... they got shot and killed. The enemies no longer try it... DUH
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  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    S.E. Pa
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    6,161
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.1224257

    I am in support of this school's concept. After all, what is the difference between a person who gets training as a cop and a citizen who takes similar training not only in firearms safety but in the laws surrounding their use, crisis management and other soft skills? Why would anyone think a teacher, administrator, janitor or cook could not adequately pass such specialized training and screening? If they can pass the screenings and training, which should include live drills and live fire shoot house training, why not?

    The reason gun free zones are war zones is there is no one returning fire and no deterrent. The non-uniformed CCW is much more of a deterrent than a sleepy rent-a-cop with bad feet.

    A populace with "assault weapons", whatever that means, is the intention of the framers of the Constitution. Back then, the most common "assault weapon" was the Second Land Model Brown Bess musket in .75 caliber smooth bore. It had a effective rate of un-aimed fire of about 2 rounds per minute with a maximum effective range of maybe 100yds. It was a a major technological advance over wheel locks, matchlocks and arquebuses. They knew that just as gun technology had advanced from these early pole arms, it would surely advance more and more from the Brown Bess but they did not include any exclusions based upon technology. They didn't even ban artillery or armed ships. They knew a populace armed with "current" technology weapons was the God given right of all citizens while providing a deterrent to both invaders and tyrannical governments, both local and national. They wanted the citizens to have the ability to march on Washington and clean house as needed. These Bast@ards are our employees--not slave masters like they think.

    Since the people so anxious to take away our guns demonstrate no respect for life or God anywhere else, why in the world would be surrender our last leverage over them? As long as we hold our guns, WE own this country, not these monsters. Give them the guns and go get fitted for chains and handcuffs. These people are devious, liars and thieves. They do NOT have the best interest of the country or you at heart. You hold the power of election, which they need. They act as pimps trying to convert you into prostitutes for them. Don't fall for it. Hold on to your rights as the future of the country is in your hands.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    7,698
    The framers also considered all male citizens to be a part of the militia and they also wanted something of a regular training schedule for the guys....and of course they also...the militia could be called to arms whenever the government saw a need....

    I dont see any constitutionalists screaming about not recieving regular training....at their own expense...and I sure dont see anyone screaming to be called up for duty....

    See... thats why they used the word militia instead of saying they wanted everyone armed just because it was their right to be armed..... they had an actual purpose in the second amendment and that was to have a militia in the ready to stand in why a regular army was formed....

    Even after we agreed to have a regular standing army the militia was still considered neccesary as a fill in that could be readied for duty while the military was getting geared up for whatever action they were fixing to perform.

    Could you imagine if the S really HTF here...... all these gun owners who have screamed about the 2nd amendment all their lives would be spitting out excuses at a mile a minute why they shouldnt have to answer a call to arms.......lol Probably be hauling butt to canada or mexico too in order to involve the whole mess.......
    YOU SHALL REAP WHAT YOU HAVE _______ SOWN

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    San Antonio, TX
    Posts
    381
    I like the op's idea, and agree its a workable solution.

    ...

    Sorrr, Corny, but I think your wrong. Armed citizens have been called to duty in the past and responded. It was called the draft. Most responded with pride and dignity.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    6,876
    So let me pitch a movie to you guys. Say a group of people see the country in shock over some event and they decide to exploit it (A bunch of well off middle aged men smoking in a room with a dimly lit perimeter to give it a conspiratorial tone.) The let out a news release criticizing the President for inaction saying there is a crisis is upon your country. They propose to organize a defensive shield, with people trained by them, of the country's most cherished asset, namely the children. They propose to put a ring of iron around the children to keep them safe in school.

    What a wonderful idea, keeping school kids safe all under the organization of these men with little cost to the public. It is done and these men are made out to be heros.

    And then the other shoe drops. One morning while the children are in school the guns are pointed in and the children are used as hostages. The men make their demand to the government. Step down for the future of the country otherwise they will snuff out the very same future they were there to protect. The government responds by sending in the army resulting in a school being blown up. The country weeps. The men shed a tear for the children also but their sacrifice is for the greater good of the country, you see, they are trying to bring the country back to its foundation of which they feel the country has strayed too far from. They really have no choice.

    So now there is a standoff with the hero in the FBI .... (sorry, that is only the trailer, don't want to spoil the rest of the movie).



    From the NRA

    Right now, today, every school in the United States should plan
    meetings with parents, school administrators, teachers and local
    authorities — and draw upon every resource available — to erect a
    cordon of protection around our kids right now. Every school will have
    a different solution based on its own unique situation.

    Every school in America needs to immediately identify, dedicate and
    deploy the resources necessary to put these security forces in place
    right now. And the National Rifle Association, as America's preeminent
    trainer of law enforcement and security personnel for the past 50
    years, is ready, willing and uniquely qualified to help.

    Our training programs are the most advanced in the world. That
    expertise must be brought to bear to protect our schools and our
    children now. We did it for the nation's defense industries and military
    installations during World War II, and we'll do it for our schools today.
    The NRA is going to bring all of its knowledge, dedication and
    resources to develop a model National School Shield Emergency
    Response Program for every school that wants it. From armed security
    to building design and access control to information technology to
    student and teacher training, this multi-faceted program will be
    developed by the very best experts in their fields.

    Former Congressman Asa Hutchinson will lead this effort as National
    Director of the National School Shield Program, with a budget provided
    by the NRA of whatever scope the task requires. His experience as a
    U.S. Attorney, Director of the Drug Enforcement Agency and
    Undersecretary of the Department of Homeland Security will give him
    the knowledge and expertise to hire the most knowledgeable and
    credentialed experts available anywhere, to get this program up and
    running from the first day forward.
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    2,297
    Actually, I am aware of a number of teachers and parents who secretly carry firearms in schools already. They may be breaking the law but they are honest, solid, dependable and trained individuals who have the mindset to stop any nonsense should it occur. I also carry consealed when attending many so called public and private events. A number of us know each other and know we all carry. Several more of us in our church also carry every Sunday and other church event and the pastor knows it and approves.

    The guns are not the problem. The problem is with demented people!

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