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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    13
    The problem with some blended refrigerants is they have a different glide....meaning in the event of a leak, all the other ingredients may leak out leaving you with pure liquid propane. This stuff makes big fires!

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    columbus, OH
    Posts
    2,072
    propane does have the same boiling point at r22 but its just a lil more combustable.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    columbus, OH
    Posts
    2,072
    Propane for all your heating AND COOLING needs!why didnt i think of that?

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    miami,fl.
    Posts
    639
    Quote Originally Posted by welling service View Post
    I have a customer that wants me to charge his HP with propane based R22. I have never heard of this refrigerant. He says he has used it and can get it cheap. I don't like the sound of it. Sounds dangerous to me. What is it?
    what happens when the compressor shorts out internally and obviously makes sparks will it blow up???? or not since you need oxygen, i think it will still go
    kaaaaboooom???? honestly its messed up think about it you have these hacks throwing it in these systems then here you go replace txv under normal procedures starts a huge fire now its on your insurance company, kind of not fair gotta becareful out there.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    799
    Propane's explosive limits are 2.37%–9.5%. It will not explode below or above these concentrations. It is very common as a DX refrigerant in household refrigerators in other countries and has been for a long while now. The amount required is only a few ounces. It is also widely burned in gas absorption refrigeration systems, so it really can heat and cool!

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,331
    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyac1 View Post
    what happens when the compressor shorts out internally and obviously makes sparks will it blow up???? or not since you need oxygen, i think it will still go
    kaaaaboooom???? honestly its messed up think about it you have these hacks throwing it in these systems then here you go replace txv under normal procedures starts a huge fire now its on your insurance company, kind of not fair gotta becareful out there.
    No oxygen, no boom.
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  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    nebraska
    Posts
    1,629
    Correct it needs oxygen to blow. When my reclaim machine failed last week it blew out a mist of refrigerant. Pretty sure that would have been a fireball with propane.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    158
    Sounds fishy! If he can get it so cheap and says he has used it, then why ain't he putting it in himself? I wouldn't do it!
    Oil can be very cruel and unforgiving! Call your local dealer for a checkup!

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    3,488
    Scares the crap out of me. As was mentioned our recovery units and vacuum pumps are not explosion proof and neither are we. How are we going to know what some idiot has charged a system with. I remember all this when R12 was going away and no one marked the refrigerant type. It won't get any better with the new R22 replacements. BTW how much propane is in R416. I think quite a bit but no problems as far as I know. Any thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by myott View Post
    We had a class the other day on new R22 replacements and the guy giving the class from Honeywell said the environmental nuts are pushing this hard at the EPA. He then showed us a demonstration video of a House Refrigerator charged with propane. They simulated a small leak and the defrost timer cut in and guess what!!!!! BBBOOOOMMMMMMM
    One Hell of blast, blew the door completely off and sent the ice bin flying in the air. Not in my house!!!

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    3,488
    More like explosions. Fires can sometimes be put out. Explosions, not so much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolingfolks View Post
    The problem with some blended refrigerants is they have a different glide....meaning in the event of a leak, all the other ingredients may leak out leaving you with pure liquid propane. This stuff makes big fires!

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    799
    Propane has very narrow explosive limits with ordinary air as the oxidant. Its explosive range is like 2-9%. Outside of this mixture, it will not combust.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nanaimo,BC, Canada!
    Posts
    346
    Quote Originally Posted by lytning View Post
    More like explosions. Fires can sometimes be put out. Explosions, not so much.
    Most explosions put themselves out.... If they're big enough! :-p

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    814
    This has certainly been a topic elsewhere on this forum.

    There's several variations of hydrocarbon based refrigerants out there. Some manufacturers have implemented its use in their systems. TRUE MANUFACTURING has marketed several commercial refrigerators using R290 - a hydrocarbon based refrigerant. There's others out there (commercial and domestic) that will follow suit. NOT so much for the price, but in their efforts in going GREEN. Less GWP (Global Warming Potential). Systems approved for its use are limited to smaller refrigeration units. However, it's NOT for use systems requiring POUNDS of the stuff.

    I figure the system size limitations COULD be that, in case it leaks, a heavier-than-air propane-based refrigerant would be too lean to accumulate & cause an explosion hazard. Otherwise, accumulation in a garage, attic, etc. - with an ignition source such as contacts closing - could light it off.

    MOST combustibles have known and established explosive ranges when mixed with oxygen. Their lower explosive limit (LEL) and upper explosive limit (UEL) defines the boundaries (in percent when mixed with oxygen) as to what's too rich (above the UEL) and what's too lean (below the LEL). The "in-between" is what will getcha. MicahWes said propane's explosive limits are 2.37%–9.5%. I didn't look it up, but that sounds plausible.

    MY points of contention is with education of those in OUR trades and with the "practices" of those we call "hacks".

    Regarding education: I foresee an entirely new set of safety practices for employing our test equipment (leak detectors to identify hydrocarbons) for use on EVERY service call - to sniff what's "in there" and therefore KNOW whether it IS or ISN'T a combustible. Obviously, your repair practices using a torch will be significantly altered if - IT IS.

    Regarding the hacks: These "trunk-slammers" (of their car) live down the street from all of us. Their repair charges are much lower than you pros - and those customers (as described in the start of this thread) are broke and just want their AC to work. So they'll pay that knucklehead to do it. The knucklehead will do it, but not "prominently and permanently mark" the system somehow.

    So far, most of you have never encountered a flammable refrigerant. I do refrigeration...and I haven't (and refrigeration was "bastardized" by the many replacements for R12 & 502). So, you're REALLY not looking for it or expect it. One of you shows up for another "not cooling" call and, through any number of circumstances in your repair efforts (with your torch or an electrical control), you set off that NON-odorous flammable refrigerant because...well...you weren't looking for it and didn't expect it...and because the KNUCKLEHEAD, HACK, TRUNK-SLAMMER that serviced it before you didn't mark the system with what he put in it.

    Anyway...so the practices within our trades shall change and you guys need to be on the forefront of those changes...

    Watch out for yourselves.

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