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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    11
    I just had two climate master Geo's installed. One is a 4 ton unit the other is a 2.5 ton split.. They are tranquility 27's. I have both desuperheaters hooked up to the bottom of two water heaters, one is a 50 gallon no electric on the other is an 80 gallon with the electric on. I got my first bill and it was 1000kw's higher then the same time last year. So I looked at the daily rate and it is 113kw and as it is getting colder he daily kwh has increased to 140kwh. My house is 4000 sq foot and I had two gas furnaces. The problem I have is that my bill is almost as high as it was last August with my two piece of crap 10 seer units. Also I disconnected the emergency heat to rule this out. Can someone please tell me that it sould be cheaper then this. I spent a lot of money on these systems. I am going to call the insaller back but I wanted to get educated first. Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,241
    Originally posted by grffdoggy
    I got my first bill and it was 1000 kws higher than the same time last year. So I looked at the daily rate and it is 113 kwh and as it is getting colder the daily kwh has increased to 140 kwh.

    My house is 4000 sq foot and I had two gas furnaces.
    Sounds like you are sharing your electricity with your neighbor.

    Previous gas use per month ?
    Rate ?

    Location?

    Did you isolate the desuperheaters and monitor the daily electric rate?
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    NE PA
    Posts
    698
    You definitely have an issue here.

    Is it open or closed loop ?

    Where are you located ?

    In "normal" operation you should see dramatic improvements in electric usage.

    paul

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    muncie Indiana
    Posts
    510
    all above info would be nice, loop design ...

    Also if both have desuperheaters the contractor needs to be sure that they are limited to .4gallons a minute of flow, this is because they actually rob useful heat from the air coil. When properly set up it is a very small amount that wouln't be noticed.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Lititz, PA (Lit' itz) not ( Li' titz)
    Posts
    122
    My house is 4000 sq foot and I had two gas furnaces. The problem I have is that my bill is almost as high as it was last August with my two piece of crap 10 seer units.





    Before you go too far lets think things over. you removed two gas furnaces (GAS) and added two (electric) heatpumps. So your electric usage should go up compared to a year ago.( using gas and now not using gas) But the good news is your gas bill should be nothing now if you removed it all together. is your ground loop an open loop or closed loop? If it is an open loop you also need to figure pumping costs into the equation, this usally gets missed in the sale of things. Other than that more info is needed.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    11

    Climate masters

    My system is a closed loop system. It has not been very cold I live in Northern KY. I do not know how to properly isolate the desuperheaters so it has not been tried. I did how ever notice a problem with the downstairs unit. The house was getting cold so I looked at the thermostat and it was 2 degress below the setpoint. I went down stairs and the board was flashing fast, which means it was locked out. I turned the heat off on the thermostat and back on and it reset itself. This problem has happened twice. I have also noticed for some reason the aux heat says it is on when the temp and the temp setpoint are equal.
    I have also measured the amperage and for some reason I seem to be drawing about 16 to 18 amps a lot of the time. I think the total for the second stage is 10 amps. This was measured at the breaker box. Also I used about 2000 gallons of propane a year. But my furnaces where junk. When they pulled the downstairs out the heat exchanger was cracked.

    I definetly think there is a problem with my system. I have the installer coming back out Friday. My electrical usage will be higher this next month then both of my old air conditioning bills were during the month of August. Any advice you can give me will help me asked the correct questions when the installers sho up. Also how do you know the flow? Do you have to have a tool to measure this or is there something on the furnace that you can read?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Grottoes VA
    Posts
    5,856
    Flow can be measered with a pressure gauge if it plumbed correctly. Sounds like you have some issues with the HP part of the unit and the aux is heating your house.

    Is this the first geo for your installer?
    Karst means cave. So, I search for caves.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Lititz, PA (Lit' itz) not ( Li' titz)
    Posts
    122
    if they put ports in the system you can get a flow rate from water temp in vs water temp out.


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Lititz, PA (Lit' itz) not ( Li' titz)
    Posts
    122
    they might have forgotten to cut the jw3 jumper which changes it from an open loop to a closed loop. could still be air in the line. How many circulators are on the loop and what type and size for example Grundfos 26-99?

    I assume it is a TTV model

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    11
    They have two pumps on the 4 ton unit and 1 pump on 2.5 ton unit. I am not sure what you are talking about on Groundfos. They drilled 7 150ft holes and split them up for each system.

    Also someone told me that they may have not programmed the thermostat correctly. I am going to read the book to see how to check it.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Lititz, PA (Lit' itz) not ( Li' titz)
    Posts
    122
    is the tstat a blue back light?
    made by climate master

    There was an internal programming error that the service tech had to go back to re program.

    does it sound like the pipes are like gurgling? when the system is running?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    11
    It is pretty quiet, the thermostats are honeywell big green touch screens.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Lititz, PA (Lit' itz) not ( Li' titz)
    Posts
    122
    Is the model a TTV 2 stage unit with variable speed fan?

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