ReplyThe synchronized type motor use's the same common which I am sure you know. The installation of relays should work as it will isolate the circuits.
Professional Member*
Has anyone had issues with Spyders retrofitted to Trane VariTrane Vav's?
We did a buidling with 72 of these Vav's. We landed the actuators directly to the BO's. We are now having issues with the triac's. The current of the actuators are below the rating of the triacs.
We are planning on installing relays, but it's going to be a major lose to the project now. I have another building with the same Vav's with XL10's and no problems, but the triacs are on the common side....not the 24v side.
Regular Guest
The synchronized type motor use's the same common which I am sure you know. The installation of relays should work as it will isolate the circuits.
Professional Member
Hmm...I did a job with about 50 of them a couple of years ago and have not had any problems. The actuators are connected directly to the spyders.
Go Rangers!
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I have the triac's either failing open or closed. I hook up a relay on a few just to see what's going on.
Here's one-
http://s238.beta.photobucket.com/use...V_2_2.mp4.html
Professional Member
Are you sure they are not out of synch? Don't those actuators have like a 5 minute drive time?
Professional Member*
I have them set up with a 6 minute stroke time.
In the video, you can see that DO7(Open) have fail closed all the time. I have others were I lost DO8(Close). And some triacs have failed closed, while others have failed open
Professional Member
I could'nt get the video to work.
Professional Member
I retrofitted a building with about 120 varitranes a couple of years ago using Trend's IQ-eco vav controller which looks identical to a Honeywell spyder (both made by Honeywell). I used the triacs directly to the trane actuators and after a year about 15 or so triacs had failed as you described. These were older varitranes. It was my best guess that when the worn out gears of some the varitranes would get in a bind, they would over amp the triacs. I have made it a point since then to always put pilot relays on these types of retrofits to isolate the triacs.
Regular Guest
The synchronized motors draw 0.37 AMPS to open and close. The close motor has a small capacitor to assist.
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I little update from a 1.5 years ago........the video is beat, at this point.
But we finally found the problem and the solution.
We have been installing isolation relays and switching DO's on failure. Which has been working, but no reason why. So I come across a document, today that explains everything.
Thought I would share.
C11-001 Series 60 VC actuators with limit switches causing Triac failures.pdf
Professional Member
Thanks for the info.
Professional Member
Thanks for this post. Glad to see some resolve to this issue. I may try out this solution on the job I posted about that does not have the isolation relays. I've lost a few more triacs here since I posted in December.
New Guest
I recently ran into the same issue when using Spyder controllers with the Trane Varitrane VAV's. It is an install of about 120 VAV boxes and about 2.5 years old. The controllers have been failing over the last year or so, but more in recent months. We then decided to add RIBU2C relays to protect the Spyder triacs. A month later we are now having issues with the relays (many are sticking and not releasing the NO contact causing the damper to stick open or closed). We took apart one relay and found they are pitting on the contacts that must be from arcing (not sure why our 0.5amp motor could damage a 10amp rated relay that much)... We have noticed at times we can flick the RIB relay and it will work for a while after that then stick again later. I have noticed our controllers are hunting a bit to achieve CFM setpoint, so I have worked on slowing that down -- though it doesn't seem it would be enough hunting to cause relay damage like we have noticed.
Couple other thoughts:
1. We are switching hots and I know Trane switches commons. Could that have any effect on this?
2. I saw this on a earlier post: "C11-001 Series 60 VC actuators with limit switches causing Triac failures.pdf" Has anyone tried this for the Varitrane dampers?
3. I also looked into using the ACI "TOB" triac booster that mirrors a triac input to give you a 2.5amp rated triac output.
Overall just trying to figure out the best option to move forward with. Any input would be appreciated.
Professional Member*
The TVS Diodes have solved our issues with the Trane Varitranes blowing out the Triacs. We are going on 3.5 years now.Originally Posted by controlresource
Also, if you are using an Vav Venom app in the controllers.......I would suggest modifying the AIA block that feeds the Damper. The maxAOChange is set to 1.1. This is good for a 90 second actuator. That setting will work ok with 120 second actuator......but with a 360 actuator, it causes extreme hunting. Change that to .28 and I think you will see a great improvement.
Professional Member
I know this is an old post, but I have completely gutted the Trane drives and added a new damper set up on the inlet of the box. Mounted the controller and never had to look back. As far as Rib relays? I put that *@# on everything. Almost everything.
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