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  1. #40
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    2,942
    [QUOTE=Quantumstate;14746271]. Ten years before that I got a Carrier condenser with a rent-house I bought; it was around 30 years old at the time and ran great until I sold the house. Just certain brands last longer and run better over the long-haul, and you notice that if you're paying attention.

    If you have been paying attention...NOBODY makes stuff like they did 30 years ago. IMO I don't shop at walmart to buy something for 1/2 the price and it lasts 1/2 as long.
    jtrammel; you are going to have to understand that you guys do not have the best credibility or greatest reputation. Fifteen years ago my mother's furnace quit. Instead of calling me she panicked and called out some HVAC company, who promptly put in the cheapest crap furnace in existence, and charged her $$$$!! That is all they did -- replace the frickin' furnace. I was so angry at that company, and I have never forgotten/forgiven what they did. Don't tell me some of you haven't taken advantage of an oldster. So when you say Goodman or Lennox or Bryant is "just as good" and that it all comes down to the install, forgive me if I vomit.

    Sorry your mother got taken by a box salesman, but dont group all of us into we were the ones that bent her over! Quite frankly thats insulting. YOU WERE GIVEN THE BEST ADVICE OF ALL-GET a FREAKIN SMART CONTRACTOR! And another thing this site is mainly made up of HVAC contractors that love what they do and are on here giving advice to prevent what happened to your mother..

    BL due to the destruction water did to the old Payne I just don't trust sloping it back. Even with these new stainless secondaries, I'd just as soon keep waste out of the furnace. Any kind of tee you put by the furnace would let products of combustion into the room, since it's under positive pressure.

    IT DOESN'T let the products of combustion into the ROOM. What BL described is also the method to use when you put a 90 plus into a crawlspace and don't have the room to slope the PVC properly.
    QUOTE]
    Last edited by jpsmith1cm; 12-09-2012 at 08:00 PM. Reason: pricing

  2. #41
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,323
    What is the Western WA temperature profile?
    What does it tell you?
    __________________________

    Station: ……. EVERETT SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WA, US (122.28W,47.91N)
    Station ID: ……. KPAE
    …….
    __________……. … HDD
    Annual ……. … 4,845 2004 Weather Channel
    ……. … 4,981 2005
    ……. … 5,292 2006
    ……. … 5,496 2007
    ……. … 5,810 2008
    ……. … 5,433 2009
    ……. … 4,981 2010 Average
    ……. … 5,595 2011 5,304
    ……. … 4712 2012 to Dec 10 add about 300 for next 20 days
    Month Starting
    10/1/2009 ……. Heat 453 Monthly DegreeDays.net /30 65'F . +11 . -11
    11/1/2009 ……. Heat 602 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx HDD /mo. Avrge Variation Hi Low
    12/1/2009 ……. Heat 863 ……… ………xxxxxxx 300 xx 10.0 55.0 66.0 44.0
    1/1/2010 ……. Heat 578 ……… ……… xxxxxxx 400 xx 13.3 51.7 62.7 40.7
    2/1/2010 ……. Heat 530 ……… ……… xxxxxxx 500 xx 16.7 48.3 59.3 37.3
    3/1/2010 ……. Heat 571 8 month …xxxxxxx 600 xx 20.0 45.0 56.0 34.0
    4/1/2010 ……. Heat 506 HeatingSeason ,xx 700 xx 23.3 41.7 52.7 30.7
    5/1/2010 ……. Heat 427 4530 88.0% xxxxx 800 xx 26.7 38.3 49.3 27.3
    6/1/2010 ……. 281 .............xxxxxxxxxxxxx 900 xx 30.0 35.0 46.0 24.0
    7/1/2010 ……. 164
    8/1/2010 ……. 153
    9/1/2010 ……. 188
    10/1/2010 ……. Heat 386
    11/1/2010 ……. Heat 664
    12/1/2010 ……. Heat 701 12 mos 5149
    1/1/2011 ……. Heat 732
    2/1/2011 ……. Heat 735
    3/1/2011 ……. Heat 637
    4/1/2011 ……. Heat 616
    5/1/2011 ……. Heat 439 4910 85.4%
    6/1/2011 ……. 266
    7/1/2011 ……. 190
    8/1/2011 ……. 136
    9/1/2011 ……. 139
    10/1/2011 ……. Heat 422
    11/1/2011 ……. Heat 666
    12/1/2011 ……. Heat 772 12 mos 5750
    1/1/2012 ……. Heat 778
    2/1/2012 ……. Heat 640
    3/1/2012 ……. Heat 698
    4/1/2012 ……. Heat 459
    5/1/2012 ……. Heat 371 4806
    6/1/2012 ……. 284
    7/1/2012 ……. 159
    8/1/2012 ……. 105
    9/1/2012 ……. 192
    10/1/2012 ……. 405
    11/1/2012 ……. 568
    0000000000000000000000000
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  3. #42
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,323
    [QUOTE=beshvac;14746541]
    Quote Originally Posted by Quantumstate View Post
    .

    jtrammel; you are going to have to understand that you guys do not have the best credibility or greatest reputation. Fifteen years ago my mother's furnace quit. Instead of calling me she panicked and called out some HVAC company, who promptly put in the cheapest crap furnace in existence, and charged her $6,000!! That is all they did -- replace the frickin' furnace. I was so angry at that company, and I have never forgotten/forgiven what they did. Don't tell me some of you haven't taken advantage of an oldster. So when you say Goodman or Lennox or Bryant is "just as good" and that it all comes down to the install, forgive me if I vomit.

    Sorry your mother got taken by a box salesman, but dont group all of us into we were the ones that bent her over! Quite frankly thats insulting. YOU WERE GIVEN THE BEST ADVICE OF ALL-GET a FREAKIN SMART CONTRACTOR! And another thing this site is mainly made up of HVAC contractors that love what they do and are on here giving advice to prevent what happened to your mother..

    QUOTE]
    With electric rate at $0.089 for Winter
    and Heating Degree Days average of 5,300
    use a XL15i or higher performance heat pump

    Contractor recommended
    http://www.essmwa.com/residential-hvac.html

    + Take advantage of the current local utility rebate for heat pump.
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    4,718
    why do you guys think I stopped posting here and said what I did?

    this is the guy that know more than us, but is here asking questions and shoots down those answers from those in the know.

    do you really think this is anything other than DIY?

    he wants lowest bidder prices, his brand equipment based on outdated and different type of application and the knowledge and information from someone and does not want to pay for it.

    have fun guys!!
    The Food Stamp Program, administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, is proud to be distributing the greatest amount of free meals and stamps EVER.
    Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U.S. Department of the Interior, asks us to "Please Do Not Feed the Animals". Their stated reason for this policy "... the animals become dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves."
    from an excerpt by Paul Jacob in Sun City, AZ

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Anderson, South Carolina, United States
    Posts
    7,448
    Quantum, you're a know it all. No more advice from me, you know everything anyway.

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,323
    Quote Originally Posted by pacnw View Post
    why do you guys think I stopped posting here and said what I did?

    this is the guy that know more than us, but is here asking questions and shoots down those answers from those in the know.

    do you really think this is anything other than DIY?

    he wants lowest bidder prices, his brand equipment based on outdated and different type of application and the knowledge and information from someone and does not want to pay for it.

    have fun guys!!
    It is definitely D=I=Y.!..!!...!!!

    + You haven't seen his pockets so you have NOT A CLUE how deep they may or may not actually be.!

    + You have not a clue on how much research he may have been able to do in a hurry.

    IF he takes low bid, so be it. Some people probably LIKE being screwed Long Term.
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,323
    Is this accurate ?

    http://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/NG_SUM_LS...PRS_DMCF_M.htm

    $1.50 / therm Natural Gas

    Heat Pump has a 75% advantage over Natural Gas currently.
    $1.50 Nat Gas /Therm

    $0.088 +++ kw
    100,000 +++ BTUH/ Therm
    ++ 3412 +++ BTUH/ kwhr
    29.3083 ____ KWhr/ Therm
    $2.579 ++++ $ elec/ Therm
    ___ 3 ___ COP for > 30'F
    $0.860 Electric

    174.5% Natural Gas/ Electric
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,323
    Quote Originally Posted by Quantumstate View Post

    Dan, the above post is disappointing. You know about my company. Yes, it is my company. (look it up) How can you think I'm going to grease-monkey my own install? That is just foolish. And how do you graft this low bid allegation on me, when I have not said anything about low bid? In fact I am looking for top-flight equipment. Can that even be bought by a hack like pacnw? NO. All I have ever done is to just try and make sure of what is being done.

    This is all just a continuation of the nasty attitudes which predominate in this forum.
    SORRY, I absolutely blew it on the missing to put in NOT. IT IS DEFINITELY _ NOT _ D.I.Y.

    Buy a heat pump with HSPF close to 9

    You don't need natural gas if it goes below 30'F for less than 200 hours a year.

    All you have to do is call Evergreen State Heat & A/C.
    Are they visiting tomorrow?

    Did you fill out the paperwork for a SNO PUD Rebate?
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    2,942
    So where in all my posts do I give you attitude and be called a HACK?

  10. #49
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    48
    Dan, OK. I couldn't imagine you'd think I'm DIY.

    It's up to my son. I am not dragging him along, he needs to be the point-man. I do need to let him know though, that you have to apply in advance for those surprising rebates, thanks.

    I still don't have any experience with these heat pumps, and it's hard to imagine that it could heat down to an ambient of 30. Just seems risky to put in only an air handler, but then I just don't know.


    beshvac, maybe it started with your unprovoked ATTACKING TONE, to my objective technical questions. Or maybe I am just starting with the assumption that you are all are not uncivilized and are not savages, and so I keep being blindsided since you actually are.

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Houston,Tx.
    Posts
    16,069
    Quote Originally Posted by Quantumstate View Post
    Can that even be bought by a hack like pacnw, Mr Bill, or beshvac? NO. jtrammel has just admitted that I know more than him.
    All I have ever done is to just try and make sure of what is being done. You haven't answered any of my questions, and now you hew to pacnw's worthless crap.
    This is all just a continuation of the nasty attitudes which predominate in this forum.
    Ok now your being reported for name calling, there are rules here and name calling is one of them, or did you even take the time to read the rules?
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

    "Never let success go to your head, and never let failure go to your heart". - Unknown

  12. #51
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    2,942
    -1
    Last edited by beshvac; 12-09-2012 at 07:54 PM.

  13. #52
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,323
    Quote Originally Posted by Quantumstate View Post
    Dan, OK. I couldn't imagine you'd think I'm DIY.

    It's up to my son. I am not dragging him along, he needs to be the point-man. I do need to let him know though, that you have to apply in advance for those surprising rebates, thanks.

    I still don't have any experience with these heat pumps, and it's hard to imagine that it could heat down to an ambient of 30. Just seems risky to put in only an air handler, but then I just don't know.
    .
    Don't they use air source heat pumps in Canada?

    Page 20 of Carrier model 25HCC5 042 Product Spec provided
    shows ~30,000 BTU/hr at 27'F.

    10 kW total = two 5 kW strips
    34,100 BTU/hr are needed for Aux and Emergency Heat.

    Existing electrical panel might need to be expanded to have 10 kW.
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

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