Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 27 to 39 of 70
  1. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    4,699
    Quote Originally Posted by Quantumstate View Post
    What I'm saying is it's going to either be Carrier or Trane (or Am Std). Maybe you don't understand that,
    I understand many of the reasons you would feel that way. I'd feel the same way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantumstate View Post

    On the evap coil, I read here that it is better to slightly oversize it. But the next size up in this coil is 60k btu. That seems like too much of a jump from 36k. So I went to the next-best coil in 3.5 ton, the 4TXCB042BC3, and 4 ton, the 4TXCB048BC3, but neither shows up in AHRI as an approved system. So it doesn't seem possible to slightly over-size the coil with the newest equipment?
    I think the matching coil is a 4 ton coil. (3-4 ton, but not really made a deep dive into AS yet.)

    Regarding the furnace question, maybe you might consider straight heat pump. If the house is really decent, the gas furnace is like buying a Prius for "all the mileage savings", then driving it 1000 miles a year. (does this analogy clearly express an absurdity, or is it to abstract?)

    AHU will save on the equipment side, piping, venting, and depending on other appliance decisions, potentially avoid a monthly meter charge.
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    4,669
    Quote Originally Posted by Quantumstate View Post
    If you have any illusions of me hiring you, think again.


    Hello Dan, apparently we can't have a civilized discussion here, so I tried to PM you but can't find any mechanism. I run Linux so don't have Skype set up. I'd put my company website here, but these people are just so nasty here and after 30 minutes I can't edit posts. The mods knock out earnest contributions and questions in others' threads in a second, but where are they when this sh*t goes on? Do they like this in their forum?

    Agree, and I expect to run the HP at least 80% of the time. I question whether it's worth the XC95m, but there don't seem to be any decent alternatives. I would like to have the flexibility of using gas, even though our electricity here is socialized and so is about the cheapest in the nation, not to mention being mostly hydro and green as can be.

    Then there are my other questions.
    not sure if you think this is me, but it is NOT and you are a customer I would NEVER work with anyways.

    so, take this offer from whomever it is as genuine.
    The Food Stamp Program, administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, is proud to be distributing the greatest amount of free meals and stamps EVER.
    Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U.S. Department of the Interior, asks us to "Please Do Not Feed the Animals". Their stated reason for this policy "... the animals become dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves."
    from an excerpt by Paul Jacob in Sun City, AZ

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    4,699
    PAC, you are one of the guys I admire. Where did THAT come from?

    This thread started badly. Let's turn it around or close it.
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Houston,Tx.
    Posts
    15,826
    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    PAC, you are one of the guys I admire. Where did THAT come from?

    This thread started badly. Let's turn it around or close it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bill View Post
    So basically your taking brand over brains?
    Quote Originally Posted by Quantumstate View Post
    So I am doing the best I can to get the info I need to make sure this is done properly. What is a forum for? I think it is to ask questions, and that is exactly what I've done, but have only gotten crap from the likes of worthless Mr Bill.
    He got his panties in a knot because I asked "So basically your taking brand over brains?" and called me "worthless" this is were it come from.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

    "Never let success go to your head, and never let failure go to your heart". - Unknown

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    48
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis.Moore View Post
    ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/hvac/msg0422373318975.html

    http://www.fairweatherac.com/documen...fectscolor.pdf

    Couldn't find specific programming documentation on the STAT

    If you oversize a coil, you have to provide the correct size metering device.
    Normally the chosen seer already gives you increased coil surface area to achieve it
    Thanks Dennis, good to know ComfortR is so simple, and about the filter. Ya I'd seen the t-stat video. But on the metering device, I thought a system like this would have a thermal metering device on both ends, so that shouldn't be an issue?


    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    I understand many of the reasons you would feel that way. I'd feel the same way.
    Yup. I think many educated people would. I think that Carrier is a little too proud of their equipment though.


    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    I think the matching coil is a 4 ton coil. (3-4 ton, but not really made a deep dive into AS yet.)
    Well that would be nice. I can't find any evidence of that though.


    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    Regarding the furnace question, maybe you might consider straight heat pump. If the house is really decent, the gas furnace is like buying a Prius for "all the mileage savings", then driving it 1000 miles a year. (does this analogy clearly express an absurdity, or is it to abstract?)
    Good analogy. All of this 'heat pump taking over' stuff is just theory to me at this point. I don't have any experience with it. I read that 'heat pump heat is colder', but maybe that's just an emotional conclusion from the idea that it comes from an "air conditioner".

    I am concerned though about the heat pump running much of the time in Winter, as I remember $500 A/C bills in Texas. How is that saving over gas? How do you equate the cost of electricity with the cost of gas in these dual-fuel systems? This is why the Carrier system is so appealing, as you can program the costs/therm in and it will decide the balance point based on costs.

    I notice that most HVAC installs like this are done with XC80's, but there isn't really any place to vent the stack in this case. The old furnace was a rusted-out busted old Payne 90. One thing I found is that the PVC vent pipes sloped down toward the furnace over the ~60' run, and so of course all the condensate would drain back to the secondary. So I had that fixed. Also on the outside, the intake pointed up, I guess to catch as much rain as possible, so pointed that down.


    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    AHU will save on the equipment side, piping, venting, and depending on other appliance decisions, potentially avoid a monthly meter charge.
    Ahu or a'u - the central stone part of a Marae in much of Polynesia?
    Ahu, the stone platforms on Easter Island (on some of which Moai used to stand)? or
    Ahu, altars in Heiau (Hawaiian Temples)?

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Anderson, South Carolina, United States
    Posts
    6,360
    AHU= air handler unit

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Anderson, South Carolina, United States
    Posts
    6,360
    Trane/am std is no better than any other brand, the only reason people think it is is because of the huge marketing/advertising dollars trane spends that is added to the cost of each piece of equipment.

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,722
    The old furnace was a rusted-out busted old Payne 90. One thing I found is that the PVC vent pipes sloped down toward the furnace over the ~60' run,
    That is how they are suppose to be ran.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    4,699
    Quote Originally Posted by jtrammel View Post
    Trane/am std is no better than any other brand, the only reason people think it is is because of the huge marketing/advertising dollars trane spends that is added to the cost of each piece of equipment.
    I suspect this to be true. The bar gets higher all the time, those that don't rise to it will suffer competitive disadvantage.

    Some of the surprisingly low bills I've see had old rheem mods as part of the picture.

    Low register temperature is the only way to avoid overheating. Overheating leads to thermostat satisfying. That leads to furnaces shutting off.

    Put just the amount of heat to the enclosure necessary to match loss. That's how to achieve amazing comfort and efficiency.

    (.. and you too Bill! I admit to being a hypocrite here, but do as I say not as I do. You guys are supposed to set a good example for ME)
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

  10. #36
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    33,898
    Trane uses TXVs in & out. Some brands use pistons as they are simple and don't break down like crazy But not as good and certainly not when trying to get super SEER.

    Like the boys say, flue runs downhill to the furnace. If a long horizontal run, ought to have a T and drain just before the furnace since Trane doesn't do that for you in the furnace like some others. Through a roof, I run the flue straight up. Some 180° it but I don't want acidic flue gases or condensate on the roof. Side wall vent, we point straight out and elbow the intake down. I suppose in a climate where it doesn't drop below freezing you could have the entire run downhill to outside. We sure can't do that here, be a humongous icicle off the vent in our weather! Also could have a dead grass spot below it due to the acid content of the condensate.

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    48
    jtrammel I know some of you continuously evangelize for Whatever brand, but I am not selecting merely on 'reputation' (real or imaginary). Fifteen years ago I bought ten old Carrier condensers for $60 each for an apt complex I owned, and they all ran great. Ten years before that I got a Carrier condenser with a rent-house I bought; it was around 30 years old at the time and ran great until I sold the house. Just certain brands last longer and run better over the long-haul, and you notice that if you're paying attention.

    jtrammel; you are going to have to understand that you guys do not have the best credibility or greatest reputation. Fifteen years ago my mother's furnace quit. Instead of calling me she panicked and called out some HVAC company, who promptly put in the cheapest crap furnace in existence, and charged her $$$$!! That is all they did -- replace the frickin' furnace. I was so angry at that company, and I have never forgotten/forgiven what they did. Don't tell me some of you haven't taken advantage of an oldster. So when you say Goodman or Lennox or Bryant is "just as good" and that it all comes down to the install, forgive me if I vomit.


    BL due to the destruction water did to the old Payne I just don't trust sloping it back. Even with these new stainless secondaries, I'd just as soon keep waste out of the furnace. Any kind of tee you put by the furnace would let products of combustion into the room, since it's under positive pressure.

    I hadn't thought of it making an icicle outside. Seems like the small amount of residual heat in the gases would melt it, at least inside the line. Ya I have the intake ell down 1' and exhaust straight out. Huge bends inside (from PVC electrical conduit).
    Last edited by jpsmith1cm; 12-09-2012 at 07:59 PM. Reason: Pricing

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    4,699
    Looney, I love that post! So many tasty little nuggets.

    Quantum, I think thats not true about reliability, but I'd definitely defer to seasoned service techs for their opinion, which in my experience has been - some specific models have problems but no brand is exempt.

    The Russian roulette wild west caviat emptor part, that's pretty accurate.

    If only people were a little more proactive. Cmon, at least have a replacement plan for a 20 year old furnace, even if you insist on walking it to the grave.
    Last edited by tedkidd; 12-09-2012 at 04:31 PM. Reason: Post Jumped...
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

  13. #39
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    33,898
    Actually you trap the tee with a loop in your vinyl drain. Some furnace makers don't have the condensate run into the inducer like Trane does. Rheem & Lennox for example, drain the water in the furnace before it gets to the inducer.

    Mild climate you may not form ice. Around here, even without draining outside, I've seen flues with 4-5' icicles hanging down from the side of the house. Days of bitter weather and lots of running.

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Comfortech Show Promo Image

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor Magazine
Forums | Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine
Comfortech365 Virtual Event