New Trane System

[dan sw fl]

What is the Western WA temperature profile?
What does it tell you?
__________________________

Station: ……. EVERETT SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WA, US (122.28W,47.91N)
Station ID: ……. KPAE
…….
__________……. … HDD
Annual ……. … 4,845 2004 Weather Channel
……. … 4,981 2005
……. … 5,292 2006
……. … 5,496 2007
……. … 5,810 2008
……. … 5,433 2009
……. … 4,981 2010 Average
……. … 5,595 2011 5,304
……. … 4712 2012 to Dec 10 add about 300 for next 20 days
Month Starting
10/1/2009 ……. Heat 453 Monthly DegreeDays.net /30 65'F . +11 . -11
11/1/2009 ……. Heat 602 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx HDD /mo. Avrge Variation Hi Low
12/1/2009 ……. Heat 863 ……… ………xxxxxxx 300 xx 10.0 55.0 66.0 44.0
1/1/2010 ……. Heat 578 ……… ……… xxxxxxx 400 xx 13.3 51.7 62.7 40.7
2/1/2010 ……. Heat 530 ……… ……… xxxxxxx 500 xx 16.7 48.3 59.3 37.3
3/1/2010 ……. Heat 571 8 month …xxxxxxx 600 xx 20.0 45.0 56.0 34.0
4/1/2010 ……. Heat 506 HeatingSeason ,xx 700 xx 23.3 41.7 52.7 30.7
5/1/2010 ……. Heat 427 4530 88.0% xxxxx 800 xx 26.7 38.3 49.3 27.3
6/1/2010 ……. 281 .............xxxxxxxxxxxxx 900 xx 30.0 35.0 46.0 24.0
7/1/2010 ……. 164
8/1/2010 ……. 153
9/1/2010 ……. 188
10/1/2010 ……. Heat 386
11/1/2010 ……. Heat 664
12/1/2010 ……. Heat 701 12 mos 5149
1/1/2011 ……. Heat 732
2/1/2011 ……. Heat 735
3/1/2011 ……. Heat 637
4/1/2011 ……. Heat 616
5/1/2011 ……. Heat 439 4910 85.4%
6/1/2011 ……. 266
7/1/2011 ……. 190
8/1/2011 ……. 136
9/1/2011 ……. 139
10/1/2011 ……. Heat 422
11/1/2011 ……. Heat 666
12/1/2011 ……. Heat 772 12 mos 5750
1/1/2012 ……. Heat 778
2/1/2012 ……. Heat 640
3/1/2012 ……. Heat 698
4/1/2012 ……. Heat 459
5/1/2012 ……. Heat 371 4806
6/1/2012 ……. 284
7/1/2012 ……. 159
8/1/2012 ……. 105
9/1/2012 ……. 192
10/1/2012 ……. 405
11/1/2012 ……. 568
0000000000000000000000000

[dan sw fl]

[QUOTE=beshvac;14746541]

.

jtrammel; you are going to have to understand that you guys do not have the best credibility or greatest reputation. Fifteen years ago my mother's furnace quit. Instead of calling me she panicked and called out some HVAC company, who promptly put in the cheapest crap furnace in existence, and charged her $6,000!! That is all they did -- replace the frickin' furnace. I was so angry at that company, and I have never forgotten/forgiven what they did. Don't tell me some of you haven't taken advantage of an oldster. So when you say Goodman or Lennox or Bryant is "just as good" and that it all comes down to the install, forgive me if I vomit.

Sorry your mother got taken by a box salesman, but dont group all of us into we were the ones that bent her over! Quite frankly thats insulting. YOU WERE GIVEN THE BEST ADVICE OF ALL-GET a FREAKIN SMART CONTRACTOR! And another thing this site is mainly made up of HVAC contractors that love what they do and are on here giving advice to prevent what happened to your mother..

QUOTE]

With electric rate at $0.089 for Winter
and Heating Degree Days average of 5,300
use a XL15i or higher performance heat pump

Contractor recommended
http://www.essmwa.com/residential-hvac.html

+ Take advantage of the current local utility rebate for heat pump.

[pacnw]

why do you guys think I stopped posting here and said what I did?

this is the guy that know more than us, but is here asking questions and shoots down those answers from those in the know.

do you really think this is anything other than DIY?

he wants lowest bidder prices, his brand equipment based on outdated and different type of application and the knowledge and information from someone and does not want to pay for it.

have fun guys!!

[jtrammel]

Quantum, you're a know it all. No more advice from me, you know everything anyway.

[dan sw fl]

why do you guys think I stopped posting here and said what I did?

this is the guy that know more than us, but is here asking questions and shoots down those answers from those in the know.

do you really think this is anything other than DIY?

he wants lowest bidder prices, his brand equipment based on outdated and different type of application and the knowledge and information from someone and does not want to pay for it.

have fun guys!!

It is definitely D=I=Y.!..!!...!!!

+ You haven't seen his pockets so you have NOT A CLUE how deep they may or may not actually be.!

+ You have not a clue on how much research he may have been able to do in a hurry.

IF he takes low bid, so be it. Some people probably LIKE being screwed Long Term.

[dan sw fl]

Is this accurate ?

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/NG_SUM_LS...PRS_DMCF_M.htm

$1.50 / therm Natural Gas

Heat Pump has a 75% advantage over Natural Gas currently.
$1.50 Nat Gas /Therm

$0.088 +++ kw
100,000 +++ BTUH/ Therm
++ 3412 +++ BTUH/ kwhr
29.3083 ____ KWhr/ Therm
$2.579 ++++ $ elec/ Therm
___ 3 ___ COP for > 30'F
$0.860 Electric

174.5% Natural Gas/ Electric

[dan sw fl]

Dan, the above post is disappointing. You know about my company. Yes, it is my company. (look it up) How can you think I'm going to grease-monkey my own install? That is just foolish. And how do you graft this low bid allegation on me, when I have not said anything about low bid? In fact I am looking for top-flight equipment. Can that even be bought by a hack like pacnw? NO. All I have ever done is to just try and make sure of what is being done.

This is all just a continuation of the nasty attitudes which predominate in this forum.

SORRY, I absolutely blew it on the missing to put in NOT. IT IS DEFINITELY _ NOT _ D.I.Y.

Buy a heat pump with HSPF close to 9

You don't need natural gas if it goes below 30'F for less than 200 hours a year.

All you have to do is call Evergreen State Heat & A/C.
Are they visiting tomorrow?

Did you fill out the paperwork for a SNO PUD Rebate?

[beshvac]

So where in all my posts do I give you attitude and be called a HACK?

[Quantumstate]

Dan, OK. I couldn't imagine you'd think I'm DIY.

It's up to my son. I am not dragging him along, he needs to be the point-man. I do need to let him know though, that you have to apply in advance for those surprising rebates, thanks.

I still don't have any experience with these heat pumps, and it's hard to imagine that it could heat down to an ambient of 30. Just seems risky to put in only an air handler, but then I just don't know.


beshvac, maybe it started with your unprovoked ATTACKING TONE, to my objective technical questions. Or maybe I am just starting with the assumption that you are all are not uncivilized and are not savages, and so I keep being blindsided since you actually are.

[Mr Bill]

Can that even be bought by a hack like pacnw, Mr Bill, or beshvac? NO. jtrammel has just admitted that I know more than him.
All I have ever done is to just try and make sure of what is being done. You haven't answered any of my questions, and now you hew to pacnw's worthless crap.
This is all just a continuation of the nasty attitudes which predominate in this forum.

Ok now your being reported for name calling, there are rules here and name calling is one of them, or did you even take the time to read the rules?

[beshvac]

-1

[dan sw fl]

Dan, OK. I couldn't imagine you'd think I'm DIY.

It's up to my son. I am not dragging him along, he needs to be the point-man. I do need to let him know though, that you have to apply in advance for those surprising rebates, thanks.

I still don't have any experience with these heat pumps, and it's hard to imagine that it could heat down to an ambient of 30. Just seems risky to put in only an air handler, but then I just don't know.
.

Don't they use air source heat pumps in Canada?

Page 20 of Carrier model 25HCC5 042 Product Spec provided
shows ~30,000 BTU/hr at 27'F.

10 kW total = two 5 kW strips
34,100 BTU/hr are needed for Aux and Emergency Heat.

Existing electrical panel might need to be expanded to have 10 kW.

[pacnw]

said I was not posting anymore, but I have access to ANY equipment I wish at top tier prices.

I put in what is best for the situation, NOT brand.

[jpsmith1cm]

I've read through this thread and, well, there's plenty of crap flying from both sides.

Quantumstate. You've got your mind set on a certain thing and nothing that anyone says will dissuade you from that. However, a person expressing an opinion contrary to yours or expressing an opinion that you don't like doesn't make them a "hack" or "worthless"

Pros. Quantumstate seems to me to know what he wants and is bound and determined to have it. Let's not drop to the level of mud-slinging, please.

[Quantumstate]

Whoah, 10kW is 42 amps @240. That is about worst case, but it seems best to have a gas furnace for backup. Also I like to be able to fall back on gas if electricity skyrockets or if a power failure. A genset can run a furnace.

jpsmith1cm I came here to ask certain specific questions, not to get advice on what brand of equipment, or even the size. Why do you think otherwise? Because my actual questions got lost in all the mire. What makes you think I don't listen to others? Who knows.

[Quantumstate]

Questions still outstanding (after all this mess):

On the thermostat, is it possible to program in fuel costs (by therm) so these can be taken into account by the system? Does the XL950 really have Zwave, and is this additional kit needed?

On the evap coil, I read here that it is better to slightly oversize it. But the next size up in this coil is 60k btu. That seems like too much of a jump from 36k. So I went to the next-best coil in 3.5 ton, the 4TXCB042BC3, and 4 ton, the 4TXCB048BC3, but neither shows up in AHRI as an approved system. So it doesn't seem possible to slightly over-size the coil with the newest equipment?

On the air cleaner, is this true electrostatic? The contractor doesn't know and doesn't really want to check. I see it has a prefilter, and then an electronic module, so I suspect it is. So how would this be cleaned? Are they reliable?

No one here knows, so I'll find out elsewhere.

[tedkidd]

QS, JP gave us a hard reset. Thank you is in order. I cut you slack before but that last comment makes you look bad. You want help? Show gratitude, you are not paying for this advice, and it is likely to be unavailable to you anywhere else.



Aircleaner - most people have ford pinto's and you are asking about a maybach. You may not get engagement on that question because not many of us sell maybach's. To most, a 4" media filter is de minimis, but even THAT can be tough to sell. We see that as a chevy Malibu, homeowners look at it like a mercedes s class. Whatever you get, make sure it has a think media filter as part of the deal.


Also, the technical questions about new equipment, buddy, you are an early adopter. You want that stuff, learn by doing, or wait until people have sold to early adopters and received feedback.


Heatpumps - if you have natural gas, hybrid is great. Otherwise, you might want straight pump. Hybrids do not allow for staging of gas AND hp, it's either or. Straight heat pump can stage resistance on top of the pump. If your pump doesn't carry 100% of the load, electric can come in for the last few percent.

When my mothers hybrid was installed the guys accidentally locked the furnace out. I got a call at 9pm on a 7f Saturday night. "temp's fine in the house, but register feel cool, is that a problem?"

I ran over and set it up right for her. But I suspect that 3 ton pump would carry the house to well below 0f.

[kbreiwick]

This is the Ask Our Pro's forum, and only Pro members that have been vetted by the AOPC may post advise here. Please apply to the AOPC today, thank you.

You can find the rules for posting and qualifications here.

Further infractions may result in loss of posting privileges.

[beenthere]

kbreiwick, this is the Ask Our Pro's forum, and only Pro members that have been vetted by the AOPC may post advise here. Please apply to the AOPC today, thank you.

You can find the rules for posting and qualifications here.

Your post has been deleted.
Further infractions may result in loss of posting privileges.

[dan sw fl]

Questions still outstanding (after all this mess):

On the thermostat, is it possible to program in fuel costs (by therm) so these can be taken into account by the system?

No one here knows, so I'll find out elsewhere.

If Natural Gas is < $0.90 / therm, it would be competitive with a HSPF 9 heat pump at ~ $0.09/ kW.

"The System" that takes care of it is " The Brain".
... Reference : post # 41, 42 & 46.

If a contractor does not answer your inquiries, " Fire Them".

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Your Government $$$ at work
www.eia.gov/neic/experts/heatcalc.xls

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