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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    St Louis
    Posts
    46

    Is it possible a unit was not charged from factory ?

    had a carrier RTU today brand new (well. .nearly new bout a year old) new strip mall unit is 2013 first spring pm. 2nd stage circuit or circuit B EMPTY on 410a? pressurized to 200 psi nitrogen let set for 20 minutes on digital SMAN3 gauge set with no drop soaped all accessible fittings vacuumed down to 600 microns and recharged 8.1 lbs back into it. my service manager wasn't too convinced but I took photos with my ipad of my gauges and the current time.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Columbia, MD
    Posts
    3,834
    Relief valve blow?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    St Louis
    Posts
    46
    hmm aren't those a 1 time pop ? and you would think that hpsi would cut out the comp before that happened

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Columbia, MD
    Posts
    3,834
    Who knows.... How long did the vacuum hold for?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Redwood City, CA
    Posts
    73
    You didn't change the oil?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    St Louis
    Posts
    46
    Quote Originally Posted by 1SikLBZ View Post
    You didn't change the oil?
    doesn't the refrigerant contain oil ? the compressor isn't semihermitc

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Maple Grove, MN
    Posts
    1,269
    Quote Originally Posted by HvacJaystl View Post
    doesn't the refrigerant contain oil ? the compressor isn't semihermitc
    No, the oil is in the compressor. If the system was open to atmosphere for any length of time, it has likely absorbed moisture. POE oil is good at sucking moisture out of the air. To change the oil you need to cut out the compressor, tip it upside down to let the old oil drain out, refill it with new oil, and then reinstall it. If the unit was under warranty I would speak to Carrier and ask them what you should do.

    At the minimum, please tell us that you changed the filter drier.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    42
    Im just curious as to how many of you really change the oil in a system with POE oil after a minor leak, I get it if its a semihermetic but i mostly work on package units that are not and I have ran across many units that have had leaks fixed and I can guarantee the oil wasnt replaced nor do I really ever run into non condensibles on these units

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Maple Grove, MN
    Posts
    1,269
    Quote Originally Posted by aftech View Post
    Im just curious as to how many of you really change the oil in a system with POE oil after a minor leak, I get it if its a semihermetic but i mostly work on package units that are not and I have ran across many units that have had leaks fixed and I can guarantee the oil wasnt replaced nor do I really ever run into non condensibles on these units
    Just for clarification, the worry about moisture in a system has to do with the possibility of acid formation causing a future burn out. I realize it is a pain in the a$$ to change the oil in these things, and that most people will never bother doing it (myself included), but in some circumstances it really should be done. Although, now that I think about it, a small bottle of Acid Away along with the new filter drier might work just as good.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    3,168
    I wonder if replacing oil with PVE would void any warranty?
    Quote Originally Posted by ammoniadog View Post
    No, the oil is in the compressor. If the system was open to atmosphere for any length of time, it has likely absorbed moisture. POE oil is good at sucking moisture out of the air. To change the oil you need to cut out the compressor, tip it upside down to let the old oil drain out, refill it with new oil, and then reinstall it. If the unit was under warranty I would speak to Carrier and ask them what you should do.

    At the minimum, please tell us that you changed the filter drier.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    12,178
    If the system didn't run, the vacuum would have removed the moisture. The bonding of water and POE oil happens when the system is operating not at atmospheric pressures.

    As noted, replace the drier, pressure test, evacuate, recharge, and monitor operations.

    Screw tipping the compressor. You won't get the oil in the coils. Why bother?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    3,168
    If that is the case then why do you have to throw out a can of POE once it has been opened to the atmosphere. Hydroscopic is hydroscopic and the POE won't give up its moisture to a vacuum. I haven't seen statistics that a dryer will remove all of the moisture. That is why I like PVE, it will give up moisture to a vacuum. Or so says Daiken. BTW PVE ain't cheap, but then neither is a compressor. One more thing, you can pump 90% of the oil out of an in place compressor without having to remove it. Just my 2 cents worth.
    Quote Originally Posted by jrbenny View Post
    If the system didn't run, the vacuum would have removed the moisture. The bonding of water and POE oil happens when the system is operating not at atmospheric pressures.

    As noted, replace the drier, pressure test, evacuate, recharge, and monitor operations.

    Screw tipping the compressor. You won't get the oil in the coils. Why bother?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    12,178
    I know exactly what Daikin says as well as every other OEM. Nobody bothers explaining the actual mechanism for the bonding. They just tell ya it's hygroscopic and put the fear of POE in you.

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